probably won't be there long ---

"Go to google maps (http://maps.google.com ), type in 'cheats' and see what happens."

Amilie's? I don't get it.

I don't get it either.

crossza wrote:I don't get it either.

What happened when you typed in "cheat?"

if you are in North Carolina it brings up the UNC-CH campus. I am in FL so I put cheats North Carolina.

That's pretty funny. I expected it to show me Foxboro, Mass.

Gonzo wrote:That's pretty funny. I expected it to show me Foxboro, Mass.

This is off topic to UNC-cheat but related to deflate-gate. I heard a segment on the radio this morning that said it could have been that the balls were inflated indoors and were inspected inside with a room temp of around 72 degrees two hours and fifteen minutes before kickoff, then when they were taken outside to sit in temps in the 40s for a number of hours before they were measured again the air pressure could have easily dropped by 2 psi. The guy who posed the theory had a science background, so it seemed plausible to me. Or maybe they tried to cheat.

Maybe our resident physicist can take up this problem and tell us if the air temp theory is plausible.

appst89 wrote:

Gonzo wrote:That's pretty funny. I expected it to show me Foxboro, Mass.

This is off topic to UNC-cheat but related to deflate-gate. I heard a segment on the radio this morning that said it could have been that the balls were inflated indoors and were inspected inside with a room temp of around 72 degrees two hours and fifteen minutes before kickoff, then when they were taken outside to sit in temps in the 40s for a number of hours before they were measured again the air pressure could have easily dropped by 2 psi. The guy who posed the theory had a science background, so it seemed plausible to me. Or maybe they tried to cheat.

Maybe our resident physicist can take up this problem and tell us if the air temp theory is plausible.

We Old-Heads would say ---
We need to ask MR. WIZARD ---

WVAPPeer wrote:

appst89 wrote:

Gonzo wrote:That's pretty funny. I expected it to show me Foxboro, Mass.

This is off topic to UNC-cheat but related to deflate-gate. I heard a segment on the radio this morning that said it could have been that the balls were inflated indoors and were inspected inside with a room temp of around 72 degrees two hours and fifteen minutes before kickoff, then when they were taken outside to sit in temps in the 40s for a number of hours before they were measured again the air pressure could have easily dropped by 2 psi. The guy who posed the theory had a science background, so it seemed plausible to me. Or maybe they tried to cheat.

Maybe our resident physicist can take up this problem and tell us if the air temp theory is plausible.

We Old-Heads would say ---
We need to ask MR. WIZARD ---

No need to ask Mr. Wizard, I got this.

Some (like my wife) would argue this is more chemistry than physics. Either way the point that dropping the temp will lower the pressure is correct.

Guy Lussac's Law explains this. For a gas with a constant volume (I think the football is made in a way that the volume is not changing much) and constant amount of gas (moles will work for those that remember that unit.)then as temp drops the pressure will drop.

Tire pressure on cars will increase after a bit of driving due to temp increase in the opposite example, or a mylar balloon popping going from an air conditioned store in the summer into 95F temps outside.

A leak around the nipple could also cause a drop in pressure, but I assume these are new footballs and had been leaked tested, maybe by placing in a bucket and checking for air bubbles.

The football is supposed to be at 12-13 psi, correct? And it was at what psi when measured later?
The inside temp would be 70-72F more than likely and the air temp outside was 45F that day?

If someone can confirm these numbers I could do a bit of math, though I am converting to metric units and away from these crazy imperial units.

The 12-13 psi is gauge pressure. The real pressure in the ball would be this 12-13 psi plus air pressure, which is 14.70 psi ( Pguage +P air = Pactual).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay-Lussac ... rature_law

Back to your regular non-science topic.

You lost me at ---
"this is more chemistry than physics"

So if they are blaming the temp change then why did it not have an effect on the balls used by the Colts?

WVAPPeer wrote:You lost me at ---
"this is more chemistry than physics"

On purpose I left out the equation, but it is an easy one actually.

P1/T1 = P2/T2

P1 and T1 are starting pres and temp
P2 and T2 are final pres and temp

Pressure can be in a variety of units, temp must be in an absolute scale, which would be Kelvin in the science.

P1 = 12 psi +14.7 = 26.7 psi = 184.1 KPa
T1 - 71 F = 21.67 C = 294.8 K
P2 = ? I'll solve for this = ? KPa
T2 = 45F = 7.22 C = 280.4 K

(184.1 KPa/294.8 K) = (P2 KPa/280.4 K)

solve for P2 (and someone check my math)

P2 = 175.1 KPa (Press of football in 45F temp outside)

To convert to gauge pressure subtract off air pressure (Foxborough, Mass is 88 m above sea level. I am ignoring this small change in air pressure due to elevation and I don't know air pressure due to weather that day anyways. I am using standard pressure 101.4 KPa = 14.7 psi)

So 174.1 KPa - 101.4 KPa = 72.2 KPa. This 72.2 KPa is equal to 10.5 psi.

Numbers seem to check, though if someone has accurate temp and air pressure during the game and the initial air pressure that would be nice, but I don't think it will change much.

AppSt94 wrote:So if they are blaming the temp change then why did it not have an effect on the balls used by the Colts?

Did the Colts inflate their balls in the same room/outside?

Let's not rule out the fact Emperor Palpatine is a cheat.

AppSt94 wrote:So if they are blaming the temp change then why did it not have an effect on the balls used by the Colts?

I'm not trying to rule out the possibility that the Pats did indeed cheat, but according to this segment on the radio, each team is responsible for providing twelve balls to the NFL to be inspected and approved. The theory was that either the balls used by the Colts were affected in the same way and just weren't measured or that the 12 balls provided by the Colts were inflated and inspected in a different area, possibly outside where the temps were lower. I don't know if they cheated or not, but this temperature theory seems to make a lot of sense especially given the amount of time that elapsed between the inspection of the balls and the re-measuring of the pressure at halftime.

appst89 wrote:

AppSt94 wrote:So if they are blaming the temp change then why did it not have an effect on the balls used by the Colts?

I'm not trying to rule out the possibility that the Pats did indeed cheat, but according to this segment on the radio, each team is responsible for providing twelve balls to the NFL to be inspected and approved. The theory was that either the balls used by the Colts were affected in the same way and just weren't measured or that the 12 balls provided by the Colts were inflated and inspected in a different area, possibly outside where the temps were lower. I don't know if they cheated or not, but this temperature theory seems to make a lot sense especially given the amount of time that elapsed between the inspection of the balls and the re-measuring of the pressure at halftime.

I suppose that you can't rule anything out but while it was cold in Foxboro it wasn't nearly as cold as the week before in Green Bay. If they tested the balls under different circumstances then that might explain why the Colt's footballs were properly inflated. However, I would then want to know why they weren't tested in the same manner.

AppSt94 wrote:

appst89 wrote:

AppSt94 wrote:So if they are blaming the temp change then why did it not have an effect on the balls used by the Colts?

I'm not trying to rule out the possibility that the Pats did indeed cheat, but according to this segment on the radio, each team is responsible for providing twelve balls to the NFL to be inspected and approved. The theory was that either the balls used by the Colts were affected in the same way and just weren't measured or that the 12 balls provided by the Colts were inflated and inspected in a different area, possibly outside where the temps were lower. I don't know if they cheated or not, but this temperature theory seems to make a lot sense especially given the amount of time that elapsed between the inspection of the balls and the re-measuring of the pressure at halftime.

I suppose that you can't rule anything out but while it was cold in Foxboro it wasn't nearly as cold as the week before in Green Bay. If they tested the balls under different circumstances then that might explain why the Colt's footballs were properly inflated. However, I would then want to know why they weren't tested in the same manner.

Those are questions that should be being asked, especially whether the balls used by the Colts were tested at the same time. I haven't heard if they were or not. Ironically, the radio segment I heard this morning provided some additional information that was interesting. The reason the NFL changed their rules regarding the preparation of game balls in 2006 was because of the Colts. Peyton Manning wanted to have his own people prep the balls before the game and the NFL changed the rule because of the request of the Colts. Prior to that season, the NFL prepared and oversaw the game balls. Because of the request by the Colts, we have the rule we have now where each team prepares the balls they will use and provide them to the referees for approval.