NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Stonewall
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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by Stonewall » Wed May 29, 2024 5:10 pm

Of course. I’m mostly thinking about the future. Where does it end ?

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by bcoach » Wed May 29, 2024 5:15 pm

Stonewall wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 5:10 pm
Of course. I’m mostly thinking about the future. Where does it end ?
In a mess.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AppfaninCAALand » Wed May 29, 2024 5:18 pm

bcoach wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 3:49 pm
Stonewall wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 2:49 pm
“Student-Athletes “…yeah , right.
Thankfully the majority are. I have a son in law who played football and was a good student. I also have a grandaughter who plays college VB and just finished her freshman year with a 3.7. Just a tiny sample but there are many, many more. There are also many that you refer to and that is a travisty suported by us.
The notion that student athletes aren't real students is completely misguided and requires one to focus only on the elite preformers in high profile sports and ignore 99.9% of all college athletes. So maybe Tar Heel football and men's basketball players aren't true students, but the soccer, baseball, softball, field hockey, lacrosse, swim, golf team members are, even in Chapel Hell, and so are everyone else down to D3 and NAIA. Former college athletes are among the most successful cohort in business, science, medicine, etc at least when compared to the overall population. The vast majority of female CEOs, for example, were athletes in their college or high school days. And that is really what the old system is paying for - developing leaders outside of sports - and that is what this new focus on catering to these elite athletes is going to kill.
Last edited by AppfaninCAALand on Wed May 29, 2024 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AppWyo » Wed May 29, 2024 5:35 pm

AppfaninCAALand wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 5:18 pm
bcoach wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 3:49 pm
Stonewall wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 2:49 pm
“Student-Athletes “…yeah , right.
Thankfully the majority are. I have a son in law who played football and was a good student. I also have a grandaughter who plays college VB and just finished her freshman year with a 3.7. Just a tiny sample but there are many, many more. There are also many that you refer to and that is a travisty suported by us.
The notion that student athletes aren't real students is completely misguided and requires one to focus only on the elite preformers in high profile sports and ignore 99.9% of all college athletes. So maybe Tar Heel football and men's basketball players aren't true students, but the soccer, baseball, softball, field hockey, lacrosse, swim, golf team members are, even in Chapel Hell, and so are everyone else down to D3 and NAIA. Former college athletes are among the most successful cohort in business, science, medicine, etc. The vast majority of female CEOs, for example, were athletes in their college or high school days. And that is really what the old system is paying for - developing leaders outside of sports - and that is what this new focus on catering to these elite athletes is going to kill.
Which just goes to show you that the most important thing in elementary school is the ability to play kickball.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by appdaze » Wed May 29, 2024 5:42 pm

Stonewall wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 5:10 pm
Of course. I’m mostly thinking about the future. Where does it end ?
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4246&hilit=pay


"Post by appdaze » January 28th, 2014, 10:49 pm

Eventually student athletes won't exist. Students will be accepted to a school as a student and then hired as an employee to be an athlete and represent the school. If they are going to pay athletes, which they will its only a matter of time, then they schools should remove the idea of an athletic scholarship and just give the athletes a set salary for each sport. The NCAA could set the standards. The athletes would have to pay for their schooling on their own whether through the money paid to them by the school or through other means. The NCAA could set up percentages even where say you get paid tuition price + 30%= player salary for that seasons contract. Each season it could go up a certain percentage. It could keep the prices of players equal across the boards to allow smaller schools to still compete.

My biggest fear is if they ever let the salary of players become a free for all like major league baseball has become. THAT will be the end of college athletics as we know it."

Post by appdaze » January 29th, 2014, 4:55 pm



bcoach wrote:
What a disaster. If they become employees then tuition and any salary also becomes taxable income. The schools will also have to pay FICA and unemployment insurance. Then hiring and firing would also come under employment laws. During an in-home you better be careful of what questions you ask. They are no longer a potential student they are a potential employee. If they are in a union and they are smoking weed can you fire them? Oh baby they are looking at big problems. If they don't like what the coach is doing that day do they run to their union rep?

appdaze wrote:It will just be minor league NFL. Run just like the NFL except the players will probably have set salaries across the board.

bcoach wrote:Yes and all the above applies because they are still employees. We, along with the vast majority of schools could never afford to do it. Again it is a disaster but like ASU66 said it will never happen.

appdaze wrote:It may not happen for the next decade or so but it will happen eventually. Greed will eventually completely take over and that will be it.




Well, the writing has been on the wall. I still stand by the eventual separation of academic institutions and athletics. Athletes will be students by choice but not required. Athletic teams will represent the school in name only and may have some revenue sharing with the school to help with facilities since they are state property for the majority of schools. Like others have said this is gonna get complicated and ugly. The otherside of this tunnel is the minor leagues.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AppfaninCAALand » Wed May 29, 2024 5:45 pm

AppWyo wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 5:35 pm
AppfaninCAALand wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 5:18 pm
bcoach wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 3:49 pm
Stonewall wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 2:49 pm
“Student-Athletes “…yeah , right.
Thankfully the majority are. I have a son in law who played football and was a good student. I also have a grandaughter who plays college VB and just finished her freshman year with a 3.7. Just a tiny sample but there are many, many more. There are also many that you refer to and that is a travisty suported by us.
The notion that student athletes aren't real students is completely misguided and requires one to focus only on the elite preformers in high profile sports and ignore 99.9% of all college athletes. So maybe Tar Heel football and men's basketball players aren't true students, but the soccer, baseball, softball, field hockey, lacrosse, swim, golf team members are, even in Chapel Hell, and so are everyone else down to D3 and NAIA. Former college athletes are among the most successful cohort in business, science, medicine, etc. The vast majority of female CEOs, for example, were athletes in their college or high school days. And that is really what the old system is paying for - developing leaders outside of sports - and that is what this new focus on catering to these elite athletes is going to kill.
Which just goes to show you that the most important thing in elementary school is the ability to play kickball.
Not sure if you are being serious or not, but participating in playing games/sports at a young age with one's peers is incredibly important to a person's intellectual, emotional, and social development. Though for younger students, recess is more impprtant than organized sport.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by Stonewall » Wed May 29, 2024 6:20 pm

Hmmmm. I’m not sure.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by Mjohn1988 » Thu May 30, 2024 10:01 am

I’m probably making this way to simply but why couldn’t the university sign a contract with each athlete saying that their scholarship and all the perks that come with it are payment for the universities use of their name, image and likeness. When you add up all the perks associated with an athletic scholarship it’s big money. If they are able to sign NIL agreements with other entities then that is their own business. But that would be for use of NIL outside of the university.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AppSt94 » Thu May 30, 2024 10:09 am

Mjohn1988 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2024 10:01 am
I’m probably making this way to simply but why couldn’t the university sign a contract with each athlete saying that their scholarship and all the perks that come with it are payment for the universities use of their name, image and likeness. When you add up all the perks associated with an athletic scholarship it’s big money. If they are able to sign NIL agreements with other entities then that is their own business. But that would be for use of NIL outside of the university.
That was the original intent.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by Mjohn1988 » Thu May 30, 2024 10:13 am

AppSt94 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2024 10:09 am
Mjohn1988 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2024 10:01 am
I’m probably making this way to simply but why couldn’t the university sign a contract with each athlete saying that their scholarship and all the perks that come with it are payment for the universities use of their name, image and likeness. When you add up all the perks associated with an athletic scholarship it’s big money. If they are able to sign NIL agreements with other entities then that is their own business. But that would be for use of NIL outside of the university.
That was the original intent.
So have there been legal rulings that would keep this from being a viable solution?
Last edited by Mjohn1988 on Thu May 30, 2024 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AppSt94 » Thu May 30, 2024 10:22 am

Mjohn1988 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2024 10:13 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2024 10:09 am
Mjohn1988 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2024 10:01 am
I’m probably making this way to simply but why couldn’t the university sign a contract with each athlete saying that their scholarship and all the perks that come with it are payment for the universities use of their name, image and likeness. When you add up all the perks associated with an athletic scholarship it’s big money. If they are able to sign NIL agreements with other entities then that is their own business. But that would be for use of NIL outside of the university.
That was the original intent.
So have there been legal rulings that would keep this from be a viable solution?
Legal? Not that I am aware of. They just keep moving goalposts to avoid the compounding lawsuits. This last move to award payouts came with the caveat that there would be no more lawsuits.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by KentHogan » Thu May 30, 2024 11:55 am

AppSt94 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 12:06 pm
KentHogan wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 11:54 am
bcoach wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 9:59 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 9:51 am
bcoach wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 9:39 am

They will have a very hard time getting clasified as contractors. Laws would have to change in order to do that.
Interesting. How so? I’m curious. My only thought as to why they would have to be contractors is due to the need to annually renew much like the current scholarship model. If you have limits on the number of “employees” that you have, then how do you cut loose underperforming employees? Is NC a right to work State?

Speaking of laws, I imagine as employees, tax payers are paying for those salaries. Would such a thing require a referendum by the citizens of the State? Having them as employees gets very tricky, very fast.
There are guidelines around independant contractor status. One is you would not be able to require them to attend meetings or set their hours.
Virtually no chance they’re classified as independent contractors, school would have way less control over them and no way the state would pass up on all that pay roll tax.
Most states are making harder to be a true contractor, especially blue states like California etc.
Under the current system, if a player gets hurt on the field and the injuries create a need for lifetime care, who pays for that?
Fair question, I doubt the school would be on the hook unless the injury occurred because of some sort of negligence.

I’m no attorney and I’ve never read the text of a scholarship but I’m sure the school/NCAA would try to avoid being responsible for lifetime care because of a sports injury.

If they become employees, then I suppose workers comp and other insurance will come into play. Everything changes once you’re an employee.

All of this will be terribly complicated.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AppSt94 » Thu May 30, 2024 11:58 am

KentHogan wrote:
Thu May 30, 2024 11:55 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 12:06 pm
KentHogan wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 11:54 am
bcoach wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 9:59 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 9:51 am


Interesting. How so? I’m curious. My only thought as to why they would have to be contractors is due to the need to annually renew much like the current scholarship model. If you have limits on the number of “employees” that you have, then how do you cut loose underperforming employees? Is NC a right to work State?

Speaking of laws, I imagine as employees, tax payers are paying for those salaries. Would such a thing require a referendum by the citizens of the State? Having them as employees gets very tricky, very fast.
There are guidelines around independant contractor status. One is you would not be able to require them to attend meetings or set their hours.
Virtually no chance they’re classified as independent contractors, school would have way less control over them and no way the state would pass up on all that pay roll tax.
Most states are making harder to be a true contractor, especially blue states like California etc.
Under the current system, if a player gets hurt on the field and the injuries create a need for lifetime care, who pays for that?
Fair question, I doubt the school would be on the hook unless the injury occurred because of some sort of negligence.

I’m no attorney and I’ve never read the text of a scholarship but I’m sure the school/NCAA would try to avoid being responsible for lifetime care because of a sports injury.

If they become employees, then I suppose workers comp and other insurance will come into play. Everything changes once you’re an employee.

All of this will be terribly complicated.
Not an attorney either but I worked in the employment industry years ago and I don’t think negligence by the employer is a prerequisite for a work comp claim. Thing could have certainly changed over the years but you are right. It’s going to get messy.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by Bootsy » Thu May 30, 2024 7:49 pm

It’s interesting…where the big TV dollars and athletics budgets were concerned, how many of us frequently felt like App and other peer programs were stuck on the outside looking in?

Viewing how radically the situation will change post-House, being on the outside may not be so bad after all.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by Bigdaddyg1 » Sat Jun 01, 2024 10:34 am

How hard would it be to structure college athletics as an either/or arrangement? You accept and play on athletic scholarship and it’s zero extra (maybe some stipend for incidentals) or you are a paid employee and you pay your way for school if you choose? Hardly any schools would pay anyone to play sports below the true revenue producers. If Alabama wants to pay 85 guys a gazillion dollars for football then who cares? There will still be a huge number of kids who will value a free education in exchange for their playing a sport they still love. People really do put way too much focus on maybe 1% of the entire number of college athletes.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by bcoach » Sat Jun 01, 2024 10:57 am

How about getting the courts to pull their heads out of their behinds and restoring what worked for decades. In spite of what many will say it was a bad idea from day one. There was also no good way to do it. I know, not going to happen but all the folks who wanted to pay players above what they were already making were just wrong.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by spacemonkey » Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:39 am

The powers that be should have created an 8 league semi pro football league to argue that these players have alternatives to college. To avoid monopoly status.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AppfaninCAALand » Sat Jun 01, 2024 12:44 pm

spacemonkey wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:39 am
The powers that be should have created an 8 league semi pro football league to argue that these players have alternatives to college. To avoid monopoly status.
That's the crux of the issue, isn't it. Its no coincidence that the two sports where most of this angst is coming from are the two sports that generate the most money and also lack a robust minor or junior league system. Elite players in baseball, ice hockey, soccer, golf, tennis all have the option of choosing either college or minor professional circuits and thus choose college because they want to be there. The same could be said for athletes in sports that don't generate much income and without much professional opportunity after college other than a very small number who will go to the Olympics (lacrosse, softball, field hockey, volleyball, track, swimming) - for those kids, college is the peak level, and thus they also are doing it because they want to be there. Meanwhile elite football and basketball players do not have that choice.

Its a bit of a chicken and egg question though isn't it. If college football wasn't so big and popular, it seems likely the NFL would have developed a robust developmental league structure.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by bcoach » Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:27 pm

AppfaninCAALand wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2024 12:44 pm
spacemonkey wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:39 am
The powers that be should have created an 8 league semi pro football league to argue that these players have alternatives to college. To avoid monopoly status.
That's the crux of the issue, isn't it. Its no coincidence that the two sports where most of this angst is coming from are the two sports that generate the most money and also lack a robust minor or junior league system. Elite players in baseball, ice hockey, soccer, golf, tennis all have the option of choosing either college or minor professional circuits and thus choose college because they want to be there. The same could be said for athletes in sports that don't generate much income and without much professional opportunity after college other than a very small number who will go to the Olympics (lacrosse, softball, field hockey, volleyball, track, swimming) - for those kids, college is the peak level, and thus they also are doing it because they want to be there. Meanwhile elite football and basketball players do not have that choice.

Its a bit of a chicken and egg question though isn't it. If college football wasn't so big and popular, it seems likely the NFL would have developed a robust developmental league structure.
But now we are back to the " sports that generate the most money". Before you get to that point with G5 you have to look at those two sports that are going to even cover their own cost. Many many don't. In addition to that it would be no surprise to me if a very hard long look is taken at student fees. With all the mounting student debt something has got to give and I know for a fact that there are legislators talking amongst themselves about that.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by hapapp » Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:59 pm

bcoach wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2024 10:57 am
How about getting the courts to pull their heads out of their behinds and restoring what worked for decades. In spite of what many will say it was a bad idea from day one. There was also no good way to do it. I know, not going to happen but all the folks who wanted to pay players above what they were already making were just wrong.
Just because we don't like it or feel its bad for college athletics, doesn't mean that legally those are bad decisions. Its not like its one judge or one court that has ruled against the NCAA. I'm not pleased with the direction the game is likely headed but I'm not sure I blame the courts per se.

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