NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

[KentHogan]

I see a lot of biased opinions who are butt hurt that the old system is dying. Like it or not the courts got it right. If you want to blame anyone then blame the cartel of colleges that created the farce of amateur athletics to begin with. It's always been a farce. At least place the blame on the correct people. The courts, players, coaches, average fans are not at fault. The major donors, college presidents/ADs, NCAA anything are who to blame for decades of a inevitably failed system.

You are right. APP has raked in millions and screwed over the players for decades now. I just saw a statement from their Swiss Bank account.

Well.....App actually has raked in millions because of our players...soooo......

App also provided the vast majority of those players, most of which never saw a professional field, a free education and therefore hopefully a better chance at success after college.

We use to view kids with athletic scholarships as lucky, now we’re suppose to see them as victims.

Just my opinion. Go App!

[Bigdaddyg1]

Great point. Bottom line- nobody is ever forced to play any college athletics. This entire shit storm was caused by maybe 1% of all college athletes who actually generate viable income for their universities. I’m counting all sports in all divisions. Most D2 and D3 pay their way and must play sports for the love of it. Most D1 Olympic sports athletes are using the scholarships as they were meant- a free education and opportunity to earn a degree. The revenue generating sports include at least 95% (or so) athletes who will never go on to pro careers. Many of them waste the free opportunity and feel like it’s all about getting paid.

[BallantyneApp]

I see a lot of biased opinions who are butt hurt that the old system is dying. Like it or not the courts got it right. If you want to blame anyone then blame the cartel of colleges that created the farce of amateur athletics to begin with. It's always been a farce. At least place the blame on the correct people. The courts, players, coaches, average fans are not at fault. The major donors, college presidents/ADs, NCAA anything are who to blame for decades of a inevitably failed system.

You are right. APP has raked in millions and screwed over the players for decades now. I just saw a statement from their Swiss Bank account.

Well.....App actually has raked in millions because of our players...soooo......

App also provided the vast majority of those players, most of which never saw a professional field, a free education and therefore hopefully a better chance at success after college.

We use to view kids with athletic scholarships as lucky, now we’re suppose to see them as victims.

Just my opinion. Go App!

I get the sentiment and for a lot of G5 and lower schools this is still the case, but something is seriously wrong when the admin and coaches are making $5MM+ with $100MM budgets and the athletes can’t accept a free meal- but also can’t do anything to pay for that meal themselves.

And the universities themselves have not been holding up their end of the deal anyway (looking at you University of No Class)

[AppSt94]

I see a lot of biased opinions who are butt hurt that the old system is dying. Like it or not the courts got it right. If you want to blame anyone then blame the cartel of colleges that created the farce of amateur athletics to begin with. It's always been a farce. At least place the blame on the correct people. The courts, players, coaches, average fans are not at fault. The major donors, college presidents/ADs, NCAA anything are who to blame for decades of a inevitably failed system.

You are right. APP has raked in millions and screwed over the players for decades now. I just saw a statement from their Swiss Bank account.

Well.....App actually has raked in millions because of our players...soooo......

App also provided the vast majority of those players, most of which never saw a professional field, a free education and therefore hopefully a better chance at success after college.

We use to view kids with athletic scholarships as lucky, now we’re suppose to see them as victims.

Just my opinion. Go App!

I get the sentiment and for a lot of G5 and lower schools this is still the case, but something is seriously wrong when the admin and coaches are making $5MM+ with $100MM budgets and the athletes can’t accept a free meal- but also can’t do anything to pay for that meal themselves.

And the universities themselves have not been holding up their end of the deal anyway (looking at you University of No Class)

And the 2nd string QB getting 10x the NIL as the star volleyball player is seen as equitable?

[Saint3333]

You are right. APP has raked in millions and screwed over the players for decades now. I just saw a statement from their Swiss Bank account.

Well.....App actually has raked in millions because of our players...soooo......

App also provided the vast majority of those players, most of which never saw a professional field, a free education and therefore hopefully a better chance at success after college.

We use to view kids with athletic scholarships as lucky, now we’re suppose to see them as victims.

Just my opinion. Go App!

I get the sentiment and for a lot of G5 and lower schools this is still the case, but something is seriously wrong when the admin and coaches are making $5MM+ with $100MM budgets and the athletes can’t accept a free meal- but also can’t do anything to pay for that meal themselves.

And the universities themselves have not been holding up their end of the deal anyway (looking at you University of No Class)

And the 2nd string QB getting 10x the NIL as the star volleyball player is seen as equitable?

If you're part of a team that brings in 10x the profit in the real world yes that is how this works, look no further than the NBA vs. WNBA. This is no longer amateur athletics unfortunately and that is one of the unintended consequences of the structure forced upon everyone (which we all are complicit in creating).

[bcoach]

I see a lot of biased opinions who are butt hurt that the old system is dying. Like it or not the courts got it right. If you want to blame anyone then blame the cartel of colleges that created the farce of amateur athletics to begin with. It's always been a farce. At least place the blame on the correct people. The courts, players, coaches, average fans are not at fault. The major donors, college presidents/ADs, NCAA anything are who to blame for decades of a inevitably failed system.

You are right. APP has raked in millions and screwed over the players for decades now. I just saw a statement from their Swiss Bank account.

Well.....App actually has raked in millions because of our players...soooo......

soooo subtract the expenses and see where you get, and don't count student fees.

Some people either have no idea or don’t want to acknowledge the difference in gross and net. Some simply think schools “rake in” gobs of cash and believe that poor unfortunate “student athletes” deserve a huge piece of whatever that pie is. To seemingly disregard operating expenses and student fees contributions is not only shortsighted but ignorant. This entire issue is simply not cut and dried. I’ve asked for years how to equitably distribute money. Does our third string kicker who probably won’t ever play deserve the same as Joey? Do our golfers deserve to be paid? How much?

Exactly. Folks just don't do their homework. The bigger question is how do you distribute funds that don't exist?

[bcoach]

Well.....App actually has raked in millions because of our players...soooo......

App also provided the vast majority of those players, most of which never saw a professional field, a free education and therefore hopefully a better chance at success after college.

We use to view kids with athletic scholarships as lucky, now we’re suppose to see them as victims.

Just my opinion. Go App!

I get the sentiment and for a lot of G5 and lower schools this is still the case, but something is seriously wrong when the admin and coaches are making $5MM+ with $100MM budgets and the athletes can’t accept a free meal- but also can’t do anything to pay for that meal themselves.

And the universities themselves have not been holding up their end of the deal anyway (looking at you University of No Class)

And the 2nd string QB getting 10x the NIL as the star volleyball player is seen as equitable?

If you're part of a team that brings in 10x the profit in the real world yes that is how this works, look no further than the NBA vs. WNBA. This is no longer amateur athletics unfortunately and that is one of the unintended consequences of the structure forced upon everyone (which we all are complicit in creating).

But that continues the mith that all football teams turn a profit.

[Saint3333]

App also provided the vast majority of those players, most of which never saw a professional field, a free education and therefore hopefully a better chance at success after college.

We use to view kids with athletic scholarships as lucky, now we’re suppose to see them as victims.

Just my opinion. Go App!

I get the sentiment and for a lot of G5 and lower schools this is still the case, but something is seriously wrong when the admin and coaches are making $5MM+ with $100MM budgets and the athletes can’t accept a free meal- but also can’t do anything to pay for that meal themselves.

And the universities themselves have not been holding up their end of the deal anyway (looking at you University of No Class)

And the 2nd string QB getting 10x the NIL as the star volleyball player is seen as equitable?

If you're part of a team that brings in 10x the profit in the real world yes that is how this works, look no further than the NBA vs. WNBA. This is no longer amateur athletics unfortunately and that is one of the unintended consequences of the structure forced upon everyone (which we all are complicit in creating).

But that continues the mith that all football teams turn a profit.

Never stated they did. "IF" is a critical portion of that statement.

[AppSt94]

If you are going to pay them, pay them either minimum wage for the hours of athletic instruction per week or the going rate for all on campus student employment. I understand that they aren’t allowed to hold down jobs like normal students, but they shouldn’t be getting a kings ransom.

[Bigdaddyg1]

If you are going to pay them, pay them either minimum wage for the hours of athletic instruction per week or the going rate for all on campus student employment. I understand that they aren’t allowed to hold down jobs like normal students, but they shouldn’t be getting a kings ransom.

I’ve never understood why this separate issue can’t be handled with grants. While there are lots of athletes in college who come from underprivileged families and many of which have little to no extra money available there are plenty whose families can provide their children with at least spending money being that everything else is paid. Why can’t student athletes apply for grants through the university for extra needed assistance? Seems like that would be above board and easily accounted for. We have never been rich and have put kids through school. If any of them were in free rides sending them a few hundred bucks a month would be easy.

[AppSt94]

If you are going to pay them, pay them either minimum wage for the hours of athletic instruction per week or the going rate for all on campus student employment. I understand that they aren’t allowed to hold down jobs like normal students, but they shouldn’t be getting a kings ransom.

I’ve never understood why this separate issue can’t be handled with grants. While there are lots of athletes in college who come from underprivileged families and many of which have little to no extra money available there are plenty whose families can provide their children with at least spending money being that everything else is paid. Why can’t student athletes apply for grants through the university for extra needed assistance? Seems like that would be above board and easily accounted for. We have never been rich and have put kids through school. If any of them were in free rides sending them a few hundred bucks a month would be easy.

Agreed. But this problem was seemingly rectified with Cost of Attendance stipends being implemented a few years ago. I guess that wasn’t enough.

[Bigdaddyg1]

If you are going to pay them, pay them either minimum wage for the hours of athletic instruction per week or the going rate for all on campus student employment. I understand that they aren’t allowed to hold down jobs like normal students, but they shouldn’t be getting a kings ransom.

I’ve never understood why this separate issue can’t be handled with grants. While there are lots of athletes in college who come from underprivileged families and many of which have little to no extra money available there are plenty whose families can provide their children with at least spending money being that everything else is paid. Why can’t student athletes apply for grants through the university for extra needed assistance? Seems like that would be above board and easily accounted for. We have never been rich and have put kids through school. If any of them were in free rides sending them a few hundred bucks a month would be easy.

Agreed. But this problem was seemingly rectified with Cost of Attendance stipends being implemented a few years ago. I guess that wasn’t enough.

Basically it is nearly impossible to quantify what is “fair” and or “equitable” as it pertains to justified compensation for athletes. A pro football team needs a long snapper and JJ Jansen has maintained that job for the Panthers for well over a decade. I’ve noticed that he makes right at $1m per season. Is he worth $5m per? Probably not but he seems fine with what he gets. The problem with college athletes, particularly the top ones in football and basketball is that they believe they can simply command ridiculous salaries (that’s what it is) while also being under the guise of a student. Just go ahead and create a football minor league that would be awful and let the true student athletes compete as traditional college football or basketball teams.

[AppSt94]

If you are going to pay them, pay them either minimum wage for the hours of athletic instruction per week or the going rate for all on campus student employment. I understand that they aren’t allowed to hold down jobs like normal students, but they shouldn’t be getting a kings ransom.

I’ve never understood why this separate issue can’t be handled with grants. While there are lots of athletes in college who come from underprivileged families and many of which have little to no extra money available there are plenty whose families can provide their children with at least spending money being that everything else is paid. Why can’t student athletes apply for grants through the university for extra needed assistance? Seems like that would be above board and easily accounted for. We have never been rich and have put kids through school. If any of them were in free rides sending them a few hundred bucks a month would be easy.

Agreed. But this problem was seemingly rectified with Cost of Attendance stipends being implemented a few years ago. I guess that wasn’t enough.

Basically it is nearly impossible to quantify what is “fair” and or “equitable” as it pertains to justified compensation for athletes. A pro football team needs a long snapper and JJ Jansen has maintained that job for the Panthers for well over a decade. I’ve noticed that he makes right at $1m per season. Is he worth $5m per? Probably not but he seems fine with what he gets. The problem with college athletes, particularly the top ones in football and basketball is that they believe they can simply command ridiculous salaries (that’s what it is) while also being under the guise of a student. Just go ahead and create a football minor league that would be awful and let the true student athletes compete as traditional college football or basketball teams.

Or just tell them what you will give them. If it’s not enough then go somewhere else.

[BambooRdApp]

If you are going to pay them, pay them either minimum wage for the hours of athletic instruction per week or the going rate for all on campus student employment. I understand that they aren’t allowed to hold down jobs like normal students, but they shouldn’t be getting a kings ransom.

I’ve never understood why this separate issue can’t be handled with grants. While there are lots of athletes in college who come from underprivileged families and many of which have little to no extra money available there are plenty whose families can provide their children with at least spending money being that everything else is paid. Why can’t student athletes apply for grants through the university for extra needed assistance? Seems like that would be above board and easily accounted for. We have never been rich and have put kids through school. If any of them were in free rides sending them a few hundred bucks a month would be easy.

Agreed. But this problem was seemingly rectified with Cost of Attendance stipends being implemented a few years ago. I guess that wasn’t enough.

Basically it is nearly impossible to quantify what is “fair” and or “equitable” as it pertains to justified compensation for athletes. A pro football team needs a long snapper and JJ Jansen has maintained that job for the Panthers for well over a decade. I’ve noticed that he makes right at $1m per season. Is he worth $5m per? Probably not but he seems fine with what he gets. The problem with college athletes, particularly the top ones in football and basketball is that they believe they can simply command ridiculous salaries (that’s what it is) while also being under the guise of a student. Just go ahead and create a football minor league that would be awful and let the true student athletes compete as traditional college football or basketball teams.

Or just tell them what you will give them. If it’s not enough then go somewhere else.

Doesn't pro football have a salary cap. So, the GM has to allocate salaries strategically based upon perceived value of the position. Technically, the salary cap depresses wages as the equivalent of the NY Yankees could out spend many teams by a substantial amount without the salary cap. Is it sustainable, probably not.
Right now, there is no salary cap for nil I do not believe... Some richy rich person could choose to pay every football player at XYZ University $1.0 million each if they chose to do so hypothetically. Not going to happen..but could happen under current rules I assume.
Overall, I believe players should get paid some amount for there dedication to the sport as there are many hours put into the craft of being an athlete at this level. I guess what is reasonable..is in the eyes of the beholder so to speak.

[Bigdaddyg1]

Yes pro football does have a salary cap and the point as I’ve always understood was for potential competitive balance. All teams “should” have a fair and equal opportunity to win. As we have seen in Charlotte it’s irrelevant (but that’s another issue). Teams have somewhat agreed what is fair and equitable as far as a total cap goes but even that gets argued and debated every year. In college we had determined for years that a full ride scholarship was fair and equitable “pay” for sports participation. Then some argued that wasn’t enough and a stipend was added. Still not enough. Now the imbalance is greater than ever before.

The Yankees and Dodgers can simply overpay all they want and small market teams can only hope that their smaller salaried players can generate magic until they can no longer be afforded then these studs get swept up by the more valuable clubs. The Yankees and Dodgers could care less about luxury tax.

I tend to agree that athletes in college might deserve some compensation for the extra time but isn’t that time part of the deal? Those who argue for paying athletes generally only make broad generalizations and statements with zero math or accounting to back it up. Sure the big power schools have the resources but it’s not like they pay a luxury tax that trickles down to the App States of the world.

[Yosef1986]

The NCAA stood by and did nothing. College football is big bucks. The NCAA could have figured a way to pay players based on graduation - if they graduate. It would still be dictated by graduation. It would still require the NCAA and schools to figure the pot of funds and divide. I agree it could/should be need based. I watched the players behind the scenes when I was at APP. Yes there are perks, however, they did not live the college life that I did. The problem is that we are to far in - not sure where this is ultimately headed.

To me - college football has lost some of the simplicity that I love. I do realize this makes me seem oldish. However, the NCAA could have at least been more involved and in front of this moment.

What could have been........

[AppWyo]

The NCAA stood by and did nothing. College football is big bucks. The NCAA could have figured a way to pay players based on graduation - if they graduate. It would still be dictated by graduation. It would still require the NCAA and schools to figure the pot of funds and divide. I agree it could/should be need based. I watched the players behind the scenes when I was at APP. Yes there are perks, however, they did not live the college life that I did. The problem is that we are to far in - not sure where this is ultimately headed.

To me - college football has lost some of the simplicity that I love. I do realize this makes me seem oldish. However, the NCAA could have at least been more involved and in front of this moment.

What could have been........

The schools with more money have always had boosters that did not do things on the up and up. NIL has exposed all of this. What has happened is that these boosters cannot buy players and teams like they had before, which has caused the big boys hardships, because every player can see what someone else is getting. SMU did not get the Death Penalty, because they were giving the players improper benefits, they got the Death Penalty, because Texas could not compete with SMU in terms of benefits. NIL has essentially leveled the playing field. Along with the transfer portal, players cannot stay bought with benefits. UCLA bought their basketball players during the Wooden Era. NIL and the transfer portal unintended consequences have actually made the system more fair for everyone, especially the players.

[bcoach]

The NCAA stood by and did nothing. College football is big bucks. The NCAA could have figured a way to pay players based on graduation - if they graduate. It would still be dictated by graduation. It would still require the NCAA and schools to figure the pot of funds and divide. I agree it could/should be need based. I watched the players behind the scenes when I was at APP. Yes there are perks, however, they did not live the college life that I did. The problem is that we are to far in - not sure where this is ultimately headed.

To me - college football has lost some of the simplicity that I love. I do realize this makes me seem oldish. However, the NCAA could have at least been more involved and in front of this moment.

What could have been........

SOME college football is big bucks. Why do so many ignore the fact that the majority of G5 is NOT big bucks. Pay for play is not going to work for for most of G5. There are a few like Liberty who can just go buy a team but for most it will just be a minor league for the P whatever.

[AppSt94]

The NCAA stood by and did nothing. College football is big bucks. The NCAA could have figured a way to pay players based on graduation - if they graduate. It would still be dictated by graduation. It would still require the NCAA and schools to figure the pot of funds and divide. I agree it could/should be need based. I watched the players behind the scenes when I was at APP. Yes there are perks, however, they did not live the college life that I did. The problem is that we are to far in - not sure where this is ultimately headed.

To me - college football has lost some of the simplicity that I love. I do realize this makes me seem oldish. However, the NCAA could have at least been more involved and in front of this moment.

What could have been........

SOME college football is big bucks. Why do so many ignore the fact that the majority of G5 is NOT big bucks. Pay for play is not going to work for for most of G5. There are a few like Liberty who can just go buy a team but for most it will just be a minor league for the P whatever.

Not only G5, but not all P5 programs are set up to handle the influx of needed cash t9 survive.

[ericsaid]

There will likely be contracts associated with NIL with stipulations and provisos regarding expectations around the payment. They will likely entail, class attendance, grade thresholds and integrity clauses.

This isn’t NIL. It’s payment directly from the school.

Those payments are not required. So, the school can still do NIL deals with whatever monies they decide to allocate. There is no requirement that a school spend $20M. The school still decides how those monies will be allocated and to whom. Its unclear at this point what impact Title IX will have but nothing prevents schools from putting stipulations on the monies shared with athletes.

This brings up a good point. If they are employees, contract or direct hire, they don’t work for App. They work for the State of North Carolina. So is there a sliding scale that determines compensation? How does the State pay a LB more at a Carolina than at a NCA&T?

You can make that argument, but do you really thing the BoG will see it that way? This is the UNC system, after all, which shuns most all academic expansion of App State in favor of just creeping UNC slowly down I-40/85. NC State doesn’t even get the same preferential treatment as UNC and they have had the better athletics programs, as well as more in demand academic programs, the past 10 to 15 years.

ECU has been fortunate enough to have a Medical School which has a ton of coverage east of Greenville. I currently reside in Edenton and ECU Health has expanded out here and I wish they would expand out to Elizabeth City because their service is much, much better than what is currently in place there.

That aside (you know I like to ramble, it’s my ADHD, I’ve been this way since 17), UNC will get whatever they ask for and it will be buried in some circular logic that is easily refutable yet will be rife with plausible deniability and some gaslighting of App. There may even be threats to the University about other funding.


I understand the school won’t have to pay athletes, but if programs in the conference and FBS are doing so, App is going to have to find a way. Winning on culture has sustained App thus far, and Shawn Clark has been a huge part of that continued culture. His sales pitch, and commitment, seems to outweigh the potential negatives due to lack of NIL relative to others. But how long does that last? How many Joey’s, Peoples, Kaiden Robinson’s, Parker’s, Nate Noel’s are there going to be in five years?

This next generation of kids will have been brought up with the expectation of payment. They won’t see it as a perk but will rather see it as being mandatory. That’s the question that will be answered. As of now, App has a great core of young men who will be successful in life after football, while also being high performers on the field. It’s going to continue to be harder to meet the burden of both as more money is pumped in all around us.