NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

AppfaninCAALand
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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AppfaninCAALand » Sat Jun 01, 2024 2:52 pm

bcoach wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:27 pm
AppfaninCAALand wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2024 12:44 pm
spacemonkey wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:39 am
The powers that be should have created an 8 league semi pro football league to argue that these players have alternatives to college. To avoid monopoly status.
That's the crux of the issue, isn't it. Its no coincidence that the two sports where most of this angst is coming from are the two sports that generate the most money and also lack a robust minor or junior league system. Elite players in baseball, ice hockey, soccer, golf, tennis all have the option of choosing either college or minor professional circuits and thus choose college because they want to be there. The same could be said for athletes in sports that don't generate much income and without much professional opportunity after college other than a very small number who will go to the Olympics (lacrosse, softball, field hockey, volleyball, track, swimming) - for those kids, college is the peak level, and thus they also are doing it because they want to be there. Meanwhile elite football and basketball players do not have that choice.

Its a bit of a chicken and egg question though isn't it. If college football wasn't so big and popular, it seems likely the NFL would have developed a robust developmental league structure.
But now we are back to the " sports that generate the most money". Before you get to that point with G5 you have to look at those two sports that are going to even cover their own cost. Many many don't. In addition to that it would be no surprise to me if a very hard long look is taken at student fees. With all the mounting student debt something has got to give and I know for a fact that there are legislators talking amongst themselves about that.
I wonder if the way this ultimately settles out will be NCAA D1 sports (other than the few dozen football teams) looking a lot more like D2 or D3 or USPORTS (Canada) or BUCS (England) with sports being far less high profile and far less costly but still an integral part of college life, while the top few football teams are spun off from the university to become professional operations officially unaffliated with the unversities that rent out their facilities and name (like many of the teams in Liga MX in Mexico).

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by KentHogan » Sat Jun 01, 2024 7:02 pm

AppSt94 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2024 11:58 am
KentHogan wrote:
Thu May 30, 2024 11:55 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 12:06 pm
KentHogan wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 11:54 am
bcoach wrote:
Wed May 29, 2024 9:59 am

There are guidelines around independant contractor status. One is you would not be able to require them to attend meetings or set their hours.
Virtually no chance they’re classified as independent contractors, school would have way less control over them and no way the state would pass up on all that pay roll tax.
Most states are making harder to be a true contractor, especially blue states like California etc.
Under the current system, if a player gets hurt on the field and the injuries create a need for lifetime care, who pays for that?
Fair question, I doubt the school would be on the hook unless the injury occurred because of some sort of negligence.

I’m no attorney and I’ve never read the text of a scholarship but I’m sure the school/NCAA would try to avoid being responsible for lifetime care because of a sports injury.

If they become employees, then I suppose workers comp and other insurance will come into play. Everything changes once you’re an employee.

All of this will be terribly complicated.
Not an attorney either but I worked in the employment industry years ago and I don’t think negligence by the employer is a prerequisite for a work comp claim. Thing could have certainly changed over the years but you are right. It’s going to get messy.
I was referring current players who aren’t employees.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by bcoach » Sun Jun 02, 2024 5:50 am

hapapp wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:59 pm
bcoach wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2024 10:57 am
How about getting the courts to pull their heads out of their behinds and restoring what worked for decades. In spite of what many will say it was a bad idea from day one. There was also no good way to do it. I know, not going to happen but all the folks who wanted to pay players above what they were already making were just wrong.
Just because we don't like it or feel its bad for college athletics, doesn't mean that legally those are bad decisions. Its not like its one judge or one court that has ruled against the NCAA. I'm not pleased with the direction the game is likely headed but I'm not sure I blame the courts per se.
We will have to disagree on this one. It was a very bad shortsighted decision. Courts often get it wrong. This is not the first and will not be the last.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by Mjohn1988 » Sun Jun 02, 2024 6:07 am

bcoach wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 5:50 am
hapapp wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:59 pm
bcoach wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2024 10:57 am
How about getting the courts to pull their heads out of their behinds and restoring what worked for decades. In spite of what many will say it was a bad idea from day one. There was also no good way to do it. I know, not going to happen but all the folks who wanted to pay players above what they were already making were just wrong.
Just because we don't like it or feel its bad for college athletics, doesn't mean that legally those are bad decisions. Its not like its one judge or one court that has ruled against the NCAA. I'm not pleased with the direction the game is likely headed but I'm not sure I blame the courts per se.
We will have to disagree on this one. It was a very bad shortsighted decision. Courts often get it wrong. This is not the first and will not be the last.
Courts are run by humans, so yes they can and do get things wrong. But when courts really get things wrong is when they start trying to make law. Courts should only apply and interpret the law. That’s what they have done in this case.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by bcoach » Sun Jun 02, 2024 6:15 am

Mjohn1988 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 6:07 am
bcoach wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 5:50 am
hapapp wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:59 pm
bcoach wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2024 10:57 am
How about getting the courts to pull their heads out of their behinds and restoring what worked for decades. In spite of what many will say it was a bad idea from day one. There was also no good way to do it. I know, not going to happen but all the folks who wanted to pay players above what they were already making were just wrong.
Just because we don't like it or feel its bad for college athletics, doesn't mean that legally those are bad decisions. Its not like its one judge or one court that has ruled against the NCAA. I'm not pleased with the direction the game is likely headed but I'm not sure I blame the courts per se.
We will have to disagree on this one. It was a very bad shortsighted decision. Courts often get it wrong. This is not the first and will not be the last.
Courts are run by humans, so yes they can and do get things wrong. But when courts really get things wrong is when they start trying to make law. Courts should only apply and interpret the law. That’s what they have done in this case.
I respect your opinion as I do HAPAPP but I still disagree.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by appdaze » Sun Jun 02, 2024 6:51 am

I see a lot of biased opinions who are butt hurt that the old system is dying. Like it or not the courts got it right. If you want to blame anyone then blame the cartel of colleges that created the farce of amateur athletics to begin with. It's always been a farce. At least place the blame on the correct people. The courts, players, coaches, average fans are not at fault. The major donors, college presidents/ADs, NCAA anything are who to blame for decades of a inevitably failed system.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by Saint3333 » Sun Jun 02, 2024 8:17 am

We’re all to blame.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AtlAppMan » Sun Jun 02, 2024 9:44 am

In principle the basis of the original college athlete was that schools had sports as avenues for overall good of school. Something all students could support to build togetherness in their institution. Same all way down through HS and middle schools etc. it built character as well.

The basis for college athletes was we will provide you with an opportunity for a scholarship for your participation. Student gets a reduction or free education in return for their participation. Some institutions do same for arts and other studies. There are all kinds of scholarships to reward students for exceptional work in a particular field or area of study.

The scholarship was always the reward for the student’s participation or whatever actions or activities were the requirement to retain scholarship in these scenarios.

The whole problem is a result of folks deciding the value of the scholarship is not enough. The scholarship has been devalued. This is also driven by the massive amounts of money that schools and individuals make off of the TV and other avenues. So some see others making a lot off the system and they don’t get enough personally from the system.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by bcoach » Sun Jun 02, 2024 10:00 am

appdaze wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 6:51 am
I see a lot of biased opinions who are butt hurt that the old system is dying. Like it or not the courts got it right. If you want to blame anyone then blame the cartel of colleges that created the farce of amateur athletics to begin with. It's always been a farce. At least place the blame on the correct people. The courts, players, coaches, average fans are not at fault. The major donors, college presidents/ADs, NCAA anything are who to blame for decades of a inevitably failed system.
You are right. APP has raked in millions and screwed over the players for decades now. I just saw a statement from their Swiss Bank account.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by appdaze » Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:12 am

bcoach wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 10:00 am
appdaze wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 6:51 am
I see a lot of biased opinions who are butt hurt that the old system is dying. Like it or not the courts got it right. If you want to blame anyone then blame the cartel of colleges that created the farce of amateur athletics to begin with. It's always been a farce. At least place the blame on the correct people. The courts, players, coaches, average fans are not at fault. The major donors, college presidents/ADs, NCAA anything are who to blame for decades of a inevitably failed system.
You are right. APP has raked in millions and screwed over the players for decades now. I just saw a statement from their Swiss Bank account.
Well.....App actually has raked in millions because of our players...soooo......

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by bcoach » Sun Jun 02, 2024 1:57 pm

appdaze wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:12 am
bcoach wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 10:00 am
appdaze wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 6:51 am
I see a lot of biased opinions who are butt hurt that the old system is dying. Like it or not the courts got it right. If you want to blame anyone then blame the cartel of colleges that created the farce of amateur athletics to begin with. It's always been a farce. At least place the blame on the correct people. The courts, players, coaches, average fans are not at fault. The major donors, college presidents/ADs, NCAA anything are who to blame for decades of a inevitably failed system.
You are right. APP has raked in millions and screwed over the players for decades now. I just saw a statement from their Swiss Bank account.
Well.....App actually has raked in millions because of our players...soooo......
soooo subtract the expenses and see where you get, and don't count student fees.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by Stonewall » Sun Jun 02, 2024 2:13 pm

And YOSEF contributions.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AppSt94 » Sun Jun 02, 2024 2:20 pm

Here’s a thought. If you want to play sports in college and get a free education but don’t want to be exploited by the school earning money off of you on TV, just opt out of playing in any competitions that are televised. Problem solved.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by Bigdaddyg1 » Sun Jun 02, 2024 2:35 pm

bcoach wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 1:57 pm
appdaze wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 11:12 am
bcoach wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 10:00 am
appdaze wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 6:51 am
I see a lot of biased opinions who are butt hurt that the old system is dying. Like it or not the courts got it right. If you want to blame anyone then blame the cartel of colleges that created the farce of amateur athletics to begin with. It's always been a farce. At least place the blame on the correct people. The courts, players, coaches, average fans are not at fault. The major donors, college presidents/ADs, NCAA anything are who to blame for decades of a inevitably failed system.
You are right. APP has raked in millions and screwed over the players for decades now. I just saw a statement from their Swiss Bank account.
Well.....App actually has raked in millions because of our players...soooo......
soooo subtract the expenses and see where you get, and don't count student fees.
Some people either have no idea or don’t want to acknowledge the difference in gross and net. Some simply think schools “rake in” gobs of cash and believe that poor unfortunate “student athletes” deserve a huge piece of whatever that pie is. To seemingly disregard operating expenses and student fees contributions is not only shortsighted but ignorant. This entire issue is simply not cut and dried. I’ve asked for years how to equitably distribute money. Does our third string kicker who probably won’t ever play deserve the same as Joey? Do our golfers deserve to be paid? How much?

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by PhillyApp1 » Sun Jun 02, 2024 2:47 pm

appdaze wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 6:51 am
I see a lot of biased opinions who are butt hurt that the old system is dying. Like it or not the courts got it right. If you want to blame anyone then blame the cartel of colleges that created the farce of amateur athletics to begin with. It's always been a farce. At least place the blame on the correct people. The courts, players, coaches, average fans are not at fault. The major donors, college presidents/ADs, NCAA anything are who to blame for decades of a inevitably failed system.
The SEC is to blame.... and their greed

F the SEC

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AppWyo » Sun Jun 02, 2024 4:28 pm

AtlAppMan wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 9:44 am
In principle the basis of the original college athlete was that schools had sports as avenues for overall good of school. Something all students could support to build togetherness in their institution. Same all way down through HS and middle schools etc. it built character as well.

The basis for college athletes was we will provide you with an opportunity for a scholarship for your participation. Student gets a reduction or free education in return for their participation. Some institutions do same for arts and other studies. There are all kinds of scholarships to reward students for exceptional work in a particular field or area of study.

The scholarship was always the reward for the student’s participation or whatever actions or activities were the requirement to retain scholarship in these scenarios.

The whole problem is a result of folks deciding the value of the scholarship is not enough. The scholarship has been devalued. This is also driven by the massive amounts of money that schools and individuals make off of the TV and other avenues. So some see others making a lot off the system and they don’t get enough personally from the system.
I think the system is designed for your team to win.

Someone said, "If we want to win we need the best athletes we can get at that position."
Someone else said, "How can we do that?"
Someone then said, "We can pay them."
Then someone else said, "How can we pay them and not pay taxes?"
"I know," said someone else, "Lets give them a scholarship and take it off of our taxes as a donation."
Then someone said, "A scholarship is nice, but some athletes want more, than an education."
"Know what we can do," said someone with extra money, "We can set their families up for life and control where and who that athlete plays by helping their family members."
"We can hide it all under the protection of the NCAA," said someone with a legal background.
Then the athletes and the have nots determined that the system was not fair and decided to blow the whole thing up. As a result, we are in the position we are in currently.

We, as in fans of Appalachian, know what is possible given a chance to play with the haves that we are just as capable of having what the haves have. When we moved to FBS we thought we would be at the same level as the haves, however, we have found out about the difference at the FBS level. ECU has always know about this looking at the ACC from the outside all these years, but never willing to admit it.

Yes college athletics is changing in ways that no one would ever have imagined, but it may be leveling the playing field for everyone involved. Appalachian is fortunate to have been one of the powers at the FCS level, just like Marshall, James Madison, and Georgia Southern. I believe that one of these schools, if not all, will be national champions one day if they are allowed to compete for a national championship. The difference will be they did not buy the best team, they recruited the best people with the best ability to achieve this goal.

Just like Ric Flair said, "If you want to be the man you gotta beat the man." Appalachian, Georgia Southern, Marshall, and James Madison just need to figure out how they can play the man for the opportunity to, "Beat The Man." Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo..."

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AppWyo » Sun Jun 02, 2024 4:36 pm

PhillyApp1 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 2:47 pm
appdaze wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 6:51 am
I see a lot of biased opinions who are butt hurt that the old system is dying. Like it or not the courts got it right. If you want to blame anyone then blame the cartel of colleges that created the farce of amateur athletics to begin with. It's always been a farce. At least place the blame on the correct people. The courts, players, coaches, average fans are not at fault. The major donors, college presidents/ADs, NCAA anything are who to blame for decades of a inevitably failed system.
The SEC is to blame.... and their greed

F the SEC
Actually it is the Big Ten Network, had Appalachian not beaten Michigan, none of this would have happen. Everyone demanded that their cable company carry the Big Ten Network and all the other conferences decided they needed a network of their own. Texas decided that they needed their own network. So if anyone is to blame for our current College Football Mess, it would be Appalachian State University's 2007 Football Team.

Jerry Moore broke college football. Actually he just pointed out what was wrong with college football, the haves vs. the have nots.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AppfaninCAALand » Sun Jun 02, 2024 5:25 pm

AppWyo wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 4:36 pm
PhillyApp1 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 2:47 pm
appdaze wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 6:51 am
I see a lot of biased opinions who are butt hurt that the old system is dying. Like it or not the courts got it right. If you want to blame anyone then blame the cartel of colleges that created the farce of amateur athletics to begin with. It's always been a farce. At least place the blame on the correct people. The courts, players, coaches, average fans are not at fault. The major donors, college presidents/ADs, NCAA anything are who to blame for decades of a inevitably failed system.
The SEC is to blame.... and their greed

F the SEC
Actually it is the Big Ten Network, had Appalachian not beaten Michigan, none of this would have happen. Everyone demanded that their cable company carry the Big Ten Network and all the other conferences decided they needed a network of their own. Texas decided that they needed their own network. So if anyone is to blame for our current College Football Mess, it would be Appalachian State University's 2007 Football Team.

Jerry Moore broke college football. Actually he just pointed out what was wrong with college football, the haves vs. the have nots.
Don't forget Board of Regents vs NCAA in the 80s that gave conferences the control of TV rights away from the NCAA. Georgia was mad because NCAA forced CBS to show the App St v Citadel game in a handful of markets instead of Ga v Clemson. We are troublemakers

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by spacemonkey » Sun Jun 02, 2024 5:35 pm

appdaze wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 6:51 am
I see a lot of biased opinions who are butt hurt that the old system is dying. Like it or not the courts got it right. If you want to blame anyone then blame the cartel of colleges that created the farce of amateur athletics to begin with. It's always been a farce. At least place the blame on the correct people. The courts, players, coaches, average fans are not at fault. The major donors, college presidents/ADs, NCAA anything are who to blame for decades of a inevitably failed system.
I could not disagree more. You could take the top 100 players out of college sports and college sports would still be popular. Joey who without that App uniform on for me.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by Saint3333 » Sun Jun 02, 2024 5:42 pm

Society led us to this position.

Substitute "gun" for "football" in Jack Johnson's Cookie Jar lyrics:

And I would turn on the TV
But it's so embarrassing
To see all the other people
I don't know what they mean
And it was magic at first
When they spoke without sound
But now this world is gonna hurt
You better turn that thing down
Turn it around

Well, it wasn't me, says the boy with the gun,
Sure, I pulled the trigger but it needed to be done,
Because life's been killing me ever since it begun
You can't blame me because I'm to young

You can't blame me, sure the killer was my son
But I didn't teach him to pull the trigger of the gun
It's the killin' on his TV screen,
You can't blame me it's those images he's seen

Well, you can't blame me, says the media man
I wasn't the one who came up with the plan
But I just point my camera at what the people wanna see,
Now it's a two-way mirror, and you can't blame me

You can't blame me, says the singer of the song
And the maker of the movie which he based his life on
It's only entertainment as anyone can see
It's smoke machines and makeup, man you can't fool me

It was you, it was me, it was every man,
We've all got the blood on our hands
We only receive what we demand,
If we want hell, then hell's what we'll have

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