NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AppSt94 » Wed Jun 12, 2024 11:00 am

Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 10:47 am
So let’s say the App Collective has $1m to play with. Some stud 5 star high school QB starts shopping around and gets up with “our guys”. He says he will sign with App for $250k. He’s widely considered a top prospect. Does the collective call the coach to put the staff with the kid? Or does the collective reach out to guys we are trying to sign? Does that first scenario ever happen?
It’s the opposite. The connection between player and coach comes first. There has to be a mutual interest. So speaking in general terms using App. Player enters portal. Thomas Guerry and staff watch film and evaluate the fit with what we do. If the player passes that test then Guerry and staff contact the kid and see if he responds with a level of interest. If there is interest, then dialogue starts to gauge fit. NIL discussions only factor in once a situation as progressed to the point an offer is coming.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AppSt94 » Wed Jun 12, 2024 11:03 am

Mjohn1988 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 10:40 am
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:18 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:14 am
Saint3333 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:01 am
bcoach wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 7:43 am
and at what point do people start thinking their dollars are spent better elsewhere?
At the current trajectory while I don't plan on reducing giving to Yosef/tickets (1.5 away games annually), incremental donations are more likely to go to the COB and other charities I'm passionate about.

Right, wrong, or indifferent I have no plans of contributing to an NIL structure.
Completely understand this point of view and no one should try and convince you otherwise. I will say that this TIGMA collective is designed in a creative way to garner donations without one feeling like one is contributing.
How does the Collective work? Is there someone who decides how much to pay a certain player? Is that information shared with whoever contributes? Are there negotiations between the collective management and athletes? The whole thing just seems shady.
It seems shady because it is shady. NIL money should actually only be paid for the use of a player’s name, image or likeness. The collectives are just paying a player to play. This whole thing got completely corrupted before it even got off the ground.
It is very much not working as intended. Like it or not, it’s a real thing and it could very well affect on the field results over time for those schools that don’t embrace it. I do think that bringing it in house versus these collectives could be a good thing.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by bcoach » Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:59 pm

So in this deal Liberty just goes out and buys a team. I promise that there is no other G5 that can compete with them. They even have the ability to buy a bunch of P (whatever) players. Sorry, this just is not college ball.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AppWyo » Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:04 pm

bcoach wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:59 pm
So in this deal Liberty just goes out and buys a team. I promise that there is no other G5 that can compete with them. They even have the ability to buy a bunch of P (whatever) players. Sorry, this just is not college ball.
The best players do not make the best team. The second best players make the best team, because they have to rely on each other to be successful.

SMU can buy whatever they need too, the original NIL team, they got the death penalty, because they could outspend Texas.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by Mjohn1988 » Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:09 pm

AppWyo wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:04 pm
bcoach wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:59 pm
So in this deal Liberty just goes out and buys a team. I promise that there is no other G5 that can compete with them. They even have the ability to buy a bunch of P (whatever) players. Sorry, this just is not college ball.
The best players do not make the best team. The second best players make the best team, because they have to rely on each other to be successful.

SMU can buy whatever they need too, the original NIL team, they got the death penalty, because they could outspend Texas.
I don’t disagree that the best players alone don’t always make the best team but you need to remember that another team is going to also buy the second best players. I hope I’m wrong.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by bcoach » Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:25 pm

AppWyo wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:04 pm
bcoach wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:59 pm
So in this deal Liberty just goes out and buys a team. I promise that there is no other G5 that can compete with them. They even have the ability to buy a bunch of P (whatever) players. Sorry, this just is not college ball.
The best players do not make the best team. The second best players make the best team, because they have to rely on each other to be successful.

SMU can buy whatever they need too, the original NIL team, they got the death penalty, because they could outspend Texas.
The point is they can buy what they need. That does not have to be the best player, it can be the player they need. The point is that money is going to destroy college ball. They are trying to combine minor league ball with school. In my humble opinion it is not going to work. I truly see the day when more than a few schools say it is time to rethink athletic programs. It is no secret that there are coaches out there looking for employment outside of athletics. It is also no secret that academia is more restless than they have ever been. I have certainly been wrong before ( that's an understatement) but this is not going to end well.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AppWyo » Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:24 am

bcoach wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:25 pm
AppWyo wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:04 pm
bcoach wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:59 pm
So in this deal Liberty just goes out and buys a team. I promise that there is no other G5 that can compete with them. They even have the ability to buy a bunch of P (whatever) players. Sorry, this just is not college ball.
The best players do not make the best team. The second best players make the best team, because they have to rely on each other to be successful.

SMU can buy whatever they need too, the original NIL team, they got the death penalty, because they could outspend Texas.
The point is they can buy what they need. That does not have to be the best player, it can be the player they need. The point is that money is going to destroy college ball. They are trying to combine minor league ball with school. In my humble opinion it is not going to work. I truly see the day when more than a few schools say it is time to rethink athletic programs. It is no secret that there are coaches out there looking for employment outside of athletics. It is also no secret that academia is more restless than they have ever been. I have certainly been wrong before ( that's an understatement) but this is not going to end well.
This is just the evolution of the college football game, if the old system really worked, it would not have been replaced by the current system which is currently evolving. The only difference now is we can see how the old system really worked, it was just illegal under the old rules. What is really going on is the system is trying to be made more fair for everyone involved.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by bcoach » Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:34 am

AppWyo wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:24 am
bcoach wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:25 pm
AppWyo wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:04 pm
bcoach wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:59 pm
So in this deal Liberty just goes out and buys a team. I promise that there is no other G5 that can compete with them. They even have the ability to buy a bunch of P (whatever) players. Sorry, this just is not college ball.
The best players do not make the best team. The second best players make the best team, because they have to rely on each other to be successful.

SMU can buy whatever they need too, the original NIL team, they got the death penalty, because they could outspend Texas.
The point is they can buy what they need. That does not have to be the best player, it can be the player they need. The point is that money is going to destroy college ball. They are trying to combine minor league ball with school. In my humble opinion it is not going to work. I truly see the day when more than a few schools say it is time to rethink athletic programs. It is no secret that there are coaches out there looking for employment outside of athletics. It is also no secret that academia is more restless than they have ever been. I have certainly been wrong before ( that's an understatement) but this is not going to end well.
This is just the evolution of the college football game, if the old system really worked, it would not have been replaced by the current system which is currently evolving. The only difference now is we can see how the old system really worked, it was just illegal under the old rules. What is really going on is the system is trying to be made more fair for everyone involved.
We will just have to respectfully disagree on this one.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AppSt94 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:41 am

Are we making this issue bigger than it actually is? As it relates to App, since 2021, we have lost 5 guys to P5 programs and outside of McLeod, I don’t consider any of them to fall into the category of a broken system. One could argue Noel fits that mold. I however do not. The rest had circumstances that weren’t NIL driven.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by Saint3333 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:11 am

The historical losses of players isn't the issue, the catalyst for a split in college football as the current landscape will provide seems to be the concern for some.

Given the dollars under the current structure (or lack thereof) that is a logical outcome and troubling to some. I don't see crippling the rest of our sports to play at the highest level of football as a sound solution.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AppSt94 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:35 am

I don’t think that it will cripple other sports. I feel like moving those NIL $$ under the budget of the athletic department is a good thing in terms of keeping things in line. Granted, that doesn’t make a difference in terms of collectives, but it does reallocate money from the shiny new toys that schools keep buying.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by appdaze » Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:32 am

I wonder how much this will affect baseball. Those .inor league signing bonuses kept many a player from attensing college, but NIL may change that for some of the top 20%. It may actually make college baseball better.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by KentHogan » Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:47 am

AppWyo wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:24 am
bcoach wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:25 pm
AppWyo wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:04 pm
bcoach wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:59 pm
So in this deal Liberty just goes out and buys a team. I promise that there is no other G5 that can compete with them. They even have the ability to buy a bunch of P (whatever) players. Sorry, this just is not college ball.
The best players do not make the best team. The second best players make the best team, because they have to rely on each other to be successful.

SMU can buy whatever they need too, the original NIL team, they got the death penalty, because they could outspend Texas.
The point is they can buy what they need. That does not have to be the best player, it can be the player they need. The point is that money is going to destroy college ball. They are trying to combine minor league ball with school. In my humble opinion it is not going to work. I truly see the day when more than a few schools say it is time to rethink athletic programs. It is no secret that there are coaches out there looking for employment outside of athletics. It is also no secret that academia is more restless than they have ever been. I have certainly been wrong before ( that's an understatement) but this is not going to end well.
This is just the evolution of the college football game, if the old system really worked, it would not have been replaced by the current system which is currently evolving. The only difference now is we can see how the old system really worked, it was just illegal under the old rules. What is really going on is the system is trying to be made more fair for everyone involved.
The evolution of college football into professional football is not an evolution I can support.

And I never considered scholarships in the old system as unfair to the players.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AppSt94 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 12:03 pm

appdaze wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:32 am
I wonder how much this will affect baseball. Those .inor league signing bonuses kept many a player from attensing college, but NIL may change that for some of the top 20%. It may actually make college baseball better.
I feel like it will help with leverage in signing bonuses.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AppWyo » Thu Jun 13, 2024 12:18 pm

appdaze wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:32 am
I wonder how much this will affect baseball. Those .inor league signing bonuses kept many a player from attensing college, but NIL may change that for some of the top 20%. It may actually make college baseball better.
Baseball is a sport that is and has been off the rails since its inception, because it is legal to buy the best team you can afford. Baseball is also the least regulated of any sport. Is baseball broken or does it just favor the teams with the most money? I speak mainly of Major League Baseball.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by Bigdaddyg1 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 10:13 pm

AppSt94 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 11:00 am
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 10:47 am
So let’s say the App Collective has $1m to play with. Some stud 5 star high school QB starts shopping around and gets up with “our guys”. He says he will sign with App for $250k. He’s widely considered a top prospect. Does the collective call the coach to put the staff with the kid? Or does the collective reach out to guys we are trying to sign? Does that first scenario ever happen?
It’s the opposite. The connection between player and coach comes first. There has to be a mutual interest. So speaking in general terms using App. Player enters portal. Thomas Guerry and staff watch film and evaluate the fit with what we do. If the player passes that test then Guerry and staff contact the kid and see if he responds with a level of interest. If there is interest, then dialogue starts to gauge fit. NIL discussions only factor in once a situation as progressed to the point an offer is coming.
My example was meant to really be backwards and asked that way intentionally. Do stud players shop their services for the highest bidder now?

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AppSt94 » Fri Jun 14, 2024 5:55 am

Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 10:13 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 11:00 am
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 10:47 am
So let’s say the App Collective has $1m to play with. Some stud 5 star high school QB starts shopping around and gets up with “our guys”. He says he will sign with App for $250k. He’s widely considered a top prospect. Does the collective call the coach to put the staff with the kid? Or does the collective reach out to guys we are trying to sign? Does that first scenario ever happen?
It’s the opposite. The connection between player and coach comes first. There has to be a mutual interest. So speaking in general terms using App. Player enters portal. Thomas Guerry and staff watch film and evaluate the fit with what we do. If the player passes that test then Guerry and staff contact the kid and see if he responds with a level of interest. If there is interest, then dialogue starts to gauge fit. NIL discussions only factor in once a situation as progressed to the point an offer is coming.
My example was meant to really be backwards and asked that way intentionally. Do stud players shop their services for the highest bidder now?
I’m sure that occurs at some sort of level now. But if they are a 5 Star, or a “Stud”, then I don’t see where $250k is going to move that needle. I understand that your question is a hypothetical, but when it comes to what your asking, there are three aspects to these talks. The player, the coach(es) and the collective. This wouldn’t play out like the scene in Blue Chips where Coach Pete rings Happy’s door and utters “whatever it takes”. The collective doesn’t work with the coaches to actively recruit. Most coaches, at least the good ones aren’t going to bid for a kid. That’s way too many red flags that the kid isn’t here to work.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by Bigdaddyg1 » Fri Jun 14, 2024 8:02 am

AppSt94 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 5:55 am
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 10:13 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 11:00 am
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 10:47 am
So let’s say the App Collective has $1m to play with. Some stud 5 star high school QB starts shopping around and gets up with “our guys”. He says he will sign with App for $250k. He’s widely considered a top prospect. Does the collective call the coach to put the staff with the kid? Or does the collective reach out to guys we are trying to sign? Does that first scenario ever happen?
It’s the opposite. The connection between player and coach comes first. There has to be a mutual interest. So speaking in general terms using App. Player enters portal. Thomas Guerry and staff watch film and evaluate the fit with what we do. If the player passes that test then Guerry and staff contact the kid and see if he responds with a level of interest. If there is interest, then dialogue starts to gauge fit. NIL discussions only factor in once a situation as progressed to the point an offer is coming.
My example was meant to really be backwards and asked that way intentionally. Do stud players shop their services for the highest bidder now?
I’m sure that occurs at some sort of level now. But if they are a 5 Star, or a “Stud”, then I don’t see where $250k is going to move that needle. I understand that your question is a hypothetical, but when it comes to what your asking, there are three aspects to these talks. The player, the coach(es) and the collective. This wouldn’t play out like the scene in Blue Chips where Coach Pete rings Happy’s door and utters “whatever it takes”. The collective doesn’t work with the coaches to actively recruit. Most coaches, at least the good ones aren’t going to bid for a kid. That’s way too many red flags that the kid isn’t here to work.
You answered my question. App isn’t going to be held hostage or buy a player. In my scenario some collective guy comes to coach and says we can jet player X but it’s gonna cost X dollars. Once it escalates to that garbage I’m out.

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Re: NCAA and Prig5 anti trust settlement

Unread post by AppSt94 » Fri Jun 14, 2024 8:14 am

Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 8:02 am
AppSt94 wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2024 5:55 am
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2024 10:13 pm
AppSt94 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 11:00 am
Bigdaddyg1 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2024 10:47 am
So let’s say the App Collective has $1m to play with. Some stud 5 star high school QB starts shopping around and gets up with “our guys”. He says he will sign with App for $250k. He’s widely considered a top prospect. Does the collective call the coach to put the staff with the kid? Or does the collective reach out to guys we are trying to sign? Does that first scenario ever happen?
It’s the opposite. The connection between player and coach comes first. There has to be a mutual interest. So speaking in general terms using App. Player enters portal. Thomas Guerry and staff watch film and evaluate the fit with what we do. If the player passes that test then Guerry and staff contact the kid and see if he responds with a level of interest. If there is interest, then dialogue starts to gauge fit. NIL discussions only factor in once a situation as progressed to the point an offer is coming.
My example was meant to really be backwards and asked that way intentionally. Do stud players shop their services for the highest bidder now?
I’m sure that occurs at some sort of level now. But if they are a 5 Star, or a “Stud”, then I don’t see where $250k is going to move that needle. I understand that your question is a hypothetical, but when it comes to what your asking, there are three aspects to these talks. The player, the coach(es) and the collective. This wouldn’t play out like the scene in Blue Chips where Coach Pete rings Happy’s door and utters “whatever it takes”. The collective doesn’t work with the coaches to actively recruit. Most coaches, at least the good ones aren’t going to bid for a kid. That’s way too many red flags that the kid isn’t here to work.
You answered my question. App isn’t going to be held hostage or buy a player. In my scenario some collective guy comes to coach and says we can jet player X but it’s gonna cost X dollars. Once it escalates to that garbage I’m out.
In a way, we are already at that point but coaches don’t act that way. Fans (donors) want to win and throwing money at kids to get them to their school is correlated with impending wins and the attached expectations. Coaches understand that wins are associated with other things besides talent.

App has been able to hang on to talent with the limited resources available through NIL. In talking to the parent of one of the players that was being courted, “we got a deal that we are happy with.”

I know that there is a lot of concern with guys like Nate Johnson and Kanye Roberts leaving. And they may at some point, but the collectives will work with the coaches to make a fair pitch and see what happens. The thing to keep in mind is that the two collectives in place for App have former players in place as advisers so they know how to work it.

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