Down goes the ACC

[appdaze]

This account has been pretty good at reporting stuff. Gonna be a wild next 6 months.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

The lesson here is not to leave the city that founded you and nurtured you.

[Captain Morgan]

wow guessing some of those teams are not going to like where they end up, but it will be better than a gutted ACC

[ericsaid]

They all knowingly and willingly signed the GoR. It's not the ACC's fault that their basketball and football programs fell apart. I'm sure the courts will see it that way when the ACC has been doing everything it can, or could, in terms of television.

[AppStFan1]

They all knowingly and willingly signed the GoR. It's not the ACC's fault that their basketball and football programs fell apart. I'm sure the courts will see it that way when the ACC has been doing everything it can, or could, in terms of television.

Signing that was very dumb. How on earth do you give a league complete ownership of all your TV games in every sport to the league? There are lawyers who seem to think there is wording to give FSU an argument they can win.

I was reading the Clemson and FSU boards about this all the way back to 2022. Here is a snippet from a point that someone brought up that makes for an interesting argument and why it was so dumb to ever sign that agreement.

"the ACC's GOR includes a "competitive revenue clause". Right now, 80% of conference revenue is generated by football and, over the last several years, Clemson has accounted for the lions share of that, yet their return is peanuts compared to the competition in other leagues. This, in and of itself, should be an out for Clemson (among others). The league can't hold schools hostage if they can make twice the revenue elsewhere. That's overly punitive and inequitable. This is why I firmly believe schools like UNC, Miami, FSU and Clemson should be pooling their resources and working together collectively and collaboratively to find a way out of the ACC's unfavorable GOR."

[ericsaid]

They all knowingly and willingly signed the GoR. It's not the ACC's fault that their basketball and football programs fell apart. I'm sure the courts will see it that way when the ACC has been doing everything it can, or could, in terms of television.

Signing that was very dumb. How on earth do you give a league complete ownership of all your TV games in every sport to the league? There are lawyers who seem to think there is wording to give FSU an argument they can win.

I was reading the Clemson and FSU boards about this all the way back to 2022. Here is a snippet from a point that someone brought up that makes for an interesting argument and why it was so dumb to ever sign that agreement.

"the ACC's GOR includes a "competitive revenue clause". Right now, 80% of conference revenue is generated by football and, over the last several years, Clemson has accounted for the lions share of that, yet their return is peanuts compared to the competition in other leagues. This, in and of itself, should be an out for Clemson (among others). The league can't hold schools hostage if they can make twice the revenue elsewhere. That's overly punitive and inequitable. This is why I firmly believe schools like UNC, Miami, FSU and Clemson should be pooling their resources and working together collectively and collaboratively to find a way out of the ACC's unfavorable GOR."

Well, they are wrong. They aren't being held hostage by anything other than a contract that they agreed to and both parties are performing under. Neither has broken a contractual obligation to the other and the ACC has done explicitly what is stated in said agreement.

Again, no one forced Clemson to sign. No one forced Miami to sign. They all did it willingly.

It's not the ACC's fault that the additions they made, with the approval of member institutions, of the former Big East schools hasn't panned out. One could argue that the old ACC has been worse for the newer programs than the legacy institutions.

Look at Pitt, Virginia Tech, Miami, Boston College, Louisville, Syracuse, etc. All but Virginia Tech were powers in basketball and nearly all have, through no I'll will of the ACC, run their programs into the ground.

That falls on those schools. If everyone was performing at a level to generate enough interest that their media contract would increase, they'd be fine.

That said, I'm not a lawyer. Perhaps there is something in the ACC locking in a rate for 15 years or whatever it was as occurring in bad faith by either the ACC or ESPN. Someone lied?

[BambooRdApp]

To say signing the contract was dumb is easy to say... easy to be a Monday Morning QB. As stated above, if the actual ACC teams were better, this is a non-issue. Syracuse and BC used to be decent football schools...and, if Clemson were better and Florida State still undefeated.. Seminoles are in

[NattyBumppo'sRevenge]

Some of the big dogs aren’t going to be happy in their new conferences when they become the cellar dweller of the super conference. Not everyone can be top dogs.

[Bigdaddyg1]

A lot of these issues are due to simple math. Add more teams and you water down the product. Everyone can't win every game. When Wake won the ACC did they get a huge chunk of extra revenue? When FSU was down and sucked they were quiet. You can't have some huge conference and have an equitable revenue distribution. Ultimately there might be some 16-20 team super conference and they will either share the revenue or figure out how to tier it based on results. Then let the cheating run rampant.

[Black Saturday]

A lot of these issues are due to simple math. Add more teams and you water down the product. Everyone can't win every game. When Wake won the ACC did they get a huge chunk of extra revenue? When FSU was down and sucked they were quiet. You can't have some huge conference and have an equitable revenue distribution. Ultimately there might be some 16-20 team super conference and they will either share the revenue or figure out how to tier it based on results. Then let the cheating run rampant.

Cheating isn't new

[AppStFan1]

They all knowingly and willingly signed the GoR. It's not the ACC's fault that their basketball and football programs fell apart. I'm sure the courts will see it that way when the ACC has been doing everything it can, or could, in terms of television.

Signing that was very dumb. How on earth do you give a league complete ownership of all your TV games in every sport to the league? There are lawyers who seem to think there is wording to give FSU an argument they can win.

I was reading the Clemson and FSU boards about this all the way back to 2022. Here is a snippet from a point that someone brought up that makes for an interesting argument and why it was so dumb to ever sign that agreement.

"the ACC's GOR includes a "competitive revenue clause". Right now, 80% of conference revenue is generated by football and, over the last several years, Clemson has accounted for the lions share of that, yet their return is peanuts compared to the competition in other leagues. This, in and of itself, should be an out for Clemson (among others). The league can't hold schools hostage if they can make twice the revenue elsewhere. That's overly punitive and inequitable. This is why I firmly believe schools like UNC, Miami, FSU and Clemson should be pooling their resources and working together collectively and collaboratively to find a way out of the ACC's unfavorable GOR."

Well, they are wrong. They aren't being held hostage by anything other than a contract that they agreed to and both parties are performing under. Neither has broken a contractual obligation to the other and the ACC has done explicitly what is stated in said agreement.

Again, no one forced Clemson to sign. No one forced Miami to sign. They all did it willingly.

It's not the ACC's fault that the additions they made, with the approval of member institutions, of the former Big East schools hasn't panned out. One could argue that the old ACC has been worse for the newer programs than the legacy institutions.

Look at Pitt, Virginia Tech, Miami, Boston College, Louisville, Syracuse, etc. All but Virginia Tech were powers in basketball and nearly all have, through no I'll will of the ACC, run their programs into the ground.

That falls on those schools. If everyone was performing at a level to generate enough interest that their media contract would increase, they'd be fine.

That said, I'm not a lawyer. Perhaps there is something in the ACC locking in a rate for 15 years or whatever it was as occurring in bad faith by either the ACC or ESPN. Someone lied?

They definitely did and it was a bad decision but I also heard there is language that the ACC must act in the best interest of it's league members as part of it and if that is true then your comment about additions not working out might be the loophole they need.

I predict that FSU, Clemson, and others will not be part of the ACC or have started the separation process within 3 years from now.

[Tru2ASU]

Also read that Florida St could shop their own sports, to either FOX or ESPN. I don't think SEC has as much interest as some may think.

[AppStFan1]

Also read that Florida St could shop their own sports, to either FOX or ESPN. I don't think SEC has as much interest as some may think.

Indeed. The SEC is already in Florida and I'm sure the Gators don't want FSU in there with them. I would imagine that the Big Ten and Big 12 would love to add them. If the Big 12 had been able to add FSU they never would have added UCF I bet.

[hapapp]

Also read that Florida St could shop their own sports, to either FOX or ESPN. I don't think SEC has as much interest as some may think.

Indeed. The SEC is already in Florida and I'm sure the Gators don't want FSU in there with them. I would imagine that the Big Ten and Big 12 would love to add them. If the Big 12 had been able to add FSU they never would have added UCF I bet.

The Big 10 could change, but FSU is not a member of the AAU. Though not an official requirement, all members save Nebraska are members and they were at the time of their entrance to the Big 10.

[AppStFan1]

Also read that Florida St could shop their own sports, to either FOX or ESPN. I don't think SEC has as much interest as some may think.

Indeed. The SEC is already in Florida and I'm sure the Gators don't want FSU in there with them. I would imagine that the Big Ten and Big 12 would love to add them. If the Big 12 had been able to add FSU they never would have added UCF I bet.

The Big 10 could change, but FSU is not a member of the AAU. Though not an official requirement, all members save Nebraska are members and they were at the time of their entrance to the Big 10.

I'm sure they would allow for FSU due to the money. I assume the Big 12 will make a play for them as well.

[AppStFan1]

Interesting read: https://mikefarrellsports.com/college/w ... akes-sense

[APPdiesel]

They all knowingly and willingly signed the GoR. It's not the ACC's fault that their basketball and football programs fell apart. I'm sure the courts will see it that way when the ACC has been doing everything it can, or could, in terms of television.

Signing that was very dumb. How on earth do you give a league complete ownership of all your TV games in every sport to the league? There are lawyers who seem to think there is wording to give FSU an argument they can win.

I was reading the Clemson and FSU boards about this all the way back to 2022. Here is a snippet from a point that someone brought up that makes for an interesting argument and why it was so dumb to ever sign that agreement.

"the ACC's GOR includes a "competitive revenue clause". Right now, 80% of conference revenue is generated by football and, over the last several years, Clemson has accounted for the lions share of that, yet their return is peanuts compared to the competition in other leagues. This, in and of itself, should be an out for Clemson (among others). The league can't hold schools hostage if they can make twice the revenue elsewhere. That's overly punitive and inequitable. This is why I firmly believe schools like UNC, Miami, FSU and Clemson should be pooling their resources and working together collectively and collaboratively to find a way out of the ACC's unfavorable GOR."

Well, they are wrong. They aren't being held hostage by anything other than a contract that they agreed to and both parties are performing under. Neither has broken a contractual obligation to the other and the ACC has done explicitly what is stated in said agreement.

Again, no one forced Clemson to sign. No one forced Miami to sign. They all did it willingly.

It's not the ACC's fault that the additions they made, with the approval of member institutions, of the former Big East schools hasn't panned out. One could argue that the old ACC has been worse for the newer programs than the legacy institutions.

Look at Pitt, Virginia Tech, Miami, Boston College, Louisville, Syracuse, etc. All but Virginia Tech were powers in basketball and nearly all have, through no I'll will of the ACC, run their programs into the ground.

That falls on those schools. If everyone was performing at a level to generate enough interest that their media contract would increase, they'd be fine.

That said, I'm not a lawyer. Perhaps there is something in the ACC locking in a rate for 15 years or whatever it was as occurring in bad faith by either the ACC or ESPN. Someone lied?

They definitely did and it was a bad decision but I also heard there is language that the ACC must act in the best interest of it's league members as part of it and if that is true then your comment about additions not working out might be the loophole they need.

I predict that FSU, Clemson, and others will not be part of the ACC or have started the separation process within 3 years from now.

I wonder if the suing schools will have to prove that the ACC did knowingly and intentionally underperform in their attempts (or lack thereof) to increase revenue. They would have to prove that ESPN and other league-wide sponsors wanted to pay the ACC more money and the ACC said “nah we’re good”.

[BambooRdApp]

They all knowingly and willingly signed the GoR. It's not the ACC's fault that their basketball and football programs fell apart. I'm sure the courts will see it that way when the ACC has been doing everything it can, or could, in terms of television.

Signing that was very dumb. How on earth do you give a league complete ownership of all your TV games in every sport to the league? There are lawyers who seem to think there is wording to give FSU an argument they can win.

I was reading the Clemson and FSU boards about this all the way back to 2022. Here is a snippet from a point that someone brought up that makes for an interesting argument and why it was so dumb to ever sign that agreement.

"the ACC's GOR includes a "competitive revenue clause". Right now, 80% of conference revenue is generated by football and, over the last several years, Clemson has accounted for the lions share of that, yet their return is peanuts compared to the competition in other leagues. This, in and of itself, should be an out for Clemson (among others). The league can't hold schools hostage if they can make twice the revenue elsewhere. That's overly punitive and inequitable. This is why I firmly believe schools like UNC, Miami, FSU and Clemson should be pooling their resources and working together collectively and collaboratively to find a way out of the ACC's unfavorable GOR."

Well, they are wrong. They aren't being held hostage by anything other than a contract that they agreed to and both parties are performing under. Neither has broken a contractual obligation to the other and the ACC has done explicitly what is stated in said agreement.

Again, no one forced Clemson to sign. No one forced Miami to sign. They all did it willingly.

It's not the ACC's fault that the additions they made, with the approval of member institutions, of the former Big East schools hasn't panned out. One could argue that the old ACC has been worse for the newer programs than the legacy institutions.

Look at Pitt, Virginia Tech, Miami, Boston College, Louisville, Syracuse, etc. All but Virginia Tech were powers in basketball and nearly all have, through no I'll will of the ACC, run their programs into the ground.

That falls on those schools. If everyone was performing at a level to generate enough interest that their media contract would increase, they'd be fine.

That said, I'm not a lawyer. Perhaps there is something in the ACC locking in a rate for 15 years or whatever it was as occurring in bad faith by either the ACC or ESPN. Someone lied?

They definitely did and it was a bad decision but I also heard there is language that the ACC must act in the best interest of it's league members as part of it and if that is true then your comment about additions not working out might be the loophole they need.

I predict that FSU, Clemson, and others will not be part of the ACC or have started the separation process within 3 years from now.

I wonder if the suing schools will have to prove that the ACC did knowingly and intentionally underperform in their attempts (or lack thereof) to increase revenue. They would have to prove that ESPN and other league-wide sponsors wanted to pay the ACC more money and the ACC said “nah we’re good”.

Bingo

[APPdiesel]

Seems to me their only leg to stand on is “every other conference has raised their payout, we haven’t so the conference MUST be derelict in its duties” and that seems awfully hard to prove.

[BallantyneApp]

We’re acting like the conference and their member institutions are separate entities. They are not.

The conference commissioner is just a highly paid spokesperson for the college CEOs. They make all the decisions.

Just because you made a bad call about tv contracts or new members doesn’t mean you can break a contract.

They have a contract with a prescribed remedy to break it.