Pay to Play

[bcoach]

If I was a current student, not athlete, paying my way (or family), I would be pissed. The athletes are getting a free ride (most of them), so if I maintain A,B or C's, shouldn't I be able to receive money too? Yes, athletes are bringing in millions to the school, but they are getting at the very least $18,000 worth of FREE education. Just how many athletes from App (all sports) will make it to the next level NEXT year? Maybe 1 if we are lucky. That FREE education will get them further than their sport. Just my honest opionion.

While few of the athletes make it to the next level in their sport (at all schools), without that college program (coaching, strength and conditioning, training, nutrition, etc.), even less would make it to the next level.

I think we are in agreement here, but just wanted to point out that it's not just a FREE education. It's also a priceless level of other luxuries other students aren't given to HELP (not guarantee) the athletes pursue their life long dream (and hard work) to get to that next level.

Other students aren't given those luxuries becuause as of right now they provide ZERO VALUE to the school, the same can't be said for mainly the football team. You point out the "free" luxuries these guys get but you try to abide by the schedule these guys have to , which in itself proves they care about these guys much more as ATHLETES than STUDENTS. Also, the fact that college football holds a monopoly as the only developmental league for the NFL, and that's what it is dont kid yourselves, speaks to how much of a sham this system is. Let's provide "$15k" a year for this kid to come line our pockets even more than they already are.

Trust me I'm grateful to receive a college education but that doesn't automatically equal to CASH in the future. So to say that free tuition should replace the actual money they have earned but instead old white guys goes against our ecomomic system and my economic values. The ONLY profession that brings in BILLIONS yet makes 0

Bring zero value? That is absolutely the most ridiculous statement I have ever read on this board.
Now let's add somebody's pocket getting lined at ASU and what the hell can you even say to that.

[3rd]

If I was a current student, not athlete, paying my way (or family), I would be pissed. The athletes are getting a free ride (most of them), so if I maintain A,B or C's, shouldn't I be able to receive money too? Yes, athletes are bringing in millions to the school, but they are getting at the very least $18,000 worth of FREE education. Just how many athletes from App (all sports) will make it to the next level NEXT year? Maybe 1 if we are lucky. That FREE education will get them further than their sport. Just my honest opionion.

While few of the athletes make it to the next level in their sport (at all schools), without that college program (coaching, strength and conditioning, training, nutrition, etc.), even less would make it to the next level.

I think we are in agreement here, but just wanted to point out that it's not just a FREE education. It's also a priceless level of other luxuries other students aren't given to HELP (not guarantee) the athletes pursue their life long dream (and hard work) to get to that next level.

Other students aren't given those luxuries becuause as of right now they provide ZERO VALUE to the school, the same can't be said for mainly the football team. You point out the "free" luxuries these guys get but you try to abide by the schedule these guys have to , which in itself proves they care about these guys much more as ATHLETES than STUDENTS. Also, the fact that college football holds a monopoly as the only developmental league for the NFL, and that's what it is dont kid yourselves, speaks to how much of a sham this system is. Let's provide "$15k" a year for this kid to come line our pockets even more than they already are.

Trust me I'm grateful to receive a college education but that doesn't automatically equal to CASH in the future. So to say that free tuition should replace the actual money they have earned but instead old white guys goes against our ecomomic system and my economic values. The ONLY profession that brings in BILLIONS yet makes 0

You do realize that the schools are not making "BILLIONS" after costs right?

[AppStateNews]

Other students aren't given those luxuries becuause as of right now they provide ZERO VALUE to the school, the same can't be said for mainly the football team. You point out the "free" luxuries these guys get but you try to abide by the schedule these guys have to , which in itself proves they care about these guys much more as ATHLETES than STUDENTS.

That is PRECISELY my point. You make it seem like they aren't getting anything other than the free education to add the value. They are also getting these luxuries other students (who, in your words bring zero value to the school -- which I bet any one of our notable alumni that have given money back to the school would disagree with) don't as their "pay" for playing football and bringing "value".

As far as the schedule goes, I did have to abide by that schedule when I was in school. Albeit, not as physically strenuous, I worked 40+ hours a week while maintaining 15+ hours every semester YEAR ROUND. The athletes generally take the minimum number of hours to be a full time student (12 hours) for all semesters and take college classes to make up for it. They also only have that daunting of a schedule during the season. Sure, they have workouts and stuff in the off season, but it's not as daunting of a schedule. I worked so much because I wasn't one of the fortunate ones that had parents/family pay for it and well, I needed to eat and pay rent some how. There were several times I was up at 5am to go to work, go to class, go back to work until 10pm or later, then had to come back home to do school work. That schedule isn't just for athletes -- there are many students that have the same thing to make ends meet and don't want the significant debt when they are done.

Trust me I'm grateful to receive a college education but that doesn't automatically equal to CASH in the future. So to say that free tuition should replace the actual money they have earned but instead old white guys goes against our ecomomic system and my economic values. The ONLY profession that brings in BILLIONS yet makes 0

Correct, a college education does not automatically equal cash. There are several college graduates without a job. But, it does significantly help the ability to get a job and/or be successful.

I am not saying the free tuition should replace the actual money they have earned at all -- please read. I am saying the free tuition PLUS the luxuries they receive (coaching, strength and conditioning, nutrition plans, trainers, exposure for the next level, etc.) that regular students don't get more than pay for the "value" they bring.

Hell, just premier strength and conditioning programs for 4 years would cost more than a tuition costs. Just look at a sports training facility -- their prices are through the roof -- and our athletes get that as PART of the "payment" for the "value" they bring.

[bigdaddyg]

If I was a current student, not athlete, paying my way (or family), I would be pissed. The athletes are getting a free ride (most of them), so if I maintain A,B or C's, shouldn't I be able to receive money too? Yes, athletes are bringing in millions to the school, but they are getting at the very least $18,000 worth of FREE education. Just how many athletes from App (all sports) will make it to the next level NEXT year? Maybe 1 if we are lucky. That FREE education will get them further than their sport. Just my honest opionion.

While few of the athletes make it to the next level in their sport (at all schools), without that college program (coaching, strength and conditioning, training, nutrition, etc.), even less would make it to the next level.

I think we are in agreement here, but just wanted to point out that it's not just a FREE education. It's also a priceless level of other luxuries other students aren't given to HELP (not guarantee) the athletes pursue their life long dream (and hard work) to get to that next level.

Other students aren't given those luxuries becuause as of right now they provide ZERO VALUE to the school, the same can't be said for mainly the football team. You point out the "free" luxuries these guys get but you try to abide by the schedule these guys have to , which in itself proves they care about these guys much more as ATHLETES than STUDENTS. Also, the fact that college football holds a monopoly as the only developmental league for the NFL, and that's what it is dont kid yourselves, speaks to how much of a sham this system is. Let's provide "$15k" a year for this kid to come line our pockets even more than they already are.

Trust me I'm grateful to receive a college education but that doesn't automatically equal to CASH in the future. So to say that free tuition should replace the actual money they have earned but instead old white guys goes against our ecomomic system and my economic values. The ONLY profession that brings in BILLIONS yet makes 0

My god I am sick of hearing how "tough" these student-athletes have it. Some people make it sound like they are indentured servants. You would think that some colleges coaches swoop down on high schools and shackle athletic kids up and bring them to college to play ball. For crying out loud they play because they want to play. Of course the "free" education they receive offers no guarantee. Simple economics tells you that every college graduate every year is not guaranteed a job immediately in their chosen field, much less a job at all. No college degree is a guarantee at all! Kids have been playing college athletics for decades. We have seen many examples at App alone of kids who graduate early, move on to grad school, etc. Yes it is demanding to train, practice, go to class, study. I would gather that most football and basketball players generally take the minimum class load (prove me wrong somebody with hard stats) which, if I am not mistaken, has to be at least 12 hours per semester (maybe slightly less) to maintain aid, or to maintain a scholarship. I would also maintain that of those 12 hours, for a majority of revenue sport athletes, that all 12 hours are not stringent courses. That being said, if an athlete cannot keep up with what amounts to a couple of courses over a semester and maintain eligibility, he or she has no business in school at all. I would also like to suggest that all athletes do not practice all year round. For a majority of football players in particular, the season ends by the middle to late December. Other than Spring practice those athlete's demands drop significantly so the argument that they are sacrificing their bodies, blah blah blah is weak. I am a huge App, college and pro sports fan. I can appreciate the sacrifice and hard work that any person commits to in order to succeed in sports. Life is tough and in order to succeed at anything it takes hard work and dedication. Athletes know this going in.

[TheMoody1]

Is it still true that only a small percentage of former athletes give to Yosef?

[TheMackAttack]

I'm interested to know how many, if any, of the commenters on this thread actually played college sports and knows first hand the time commitment it takes. I support the stipend, although I'm admittedly doubtful that it won't get abused, because it's virtually impossible for athletes to get a part time job while they're in school. If they do, it's no more than a handful of hours in the off-season and it almost had to be somebody on campus who will work around they school and practice schedules. They don't have the means to get any spending money and I think this idea that "isn't a full scholarship enough?" doesn't hold any water, especially for a baseball player.

[bcoach]

I'm interested to know how many, if any, of the commenters on this thread actually played college sports and knows first hand the time commitment it takes. I support the stipend, although I'm admittedly doubtful that it won't get abused, because it's virtually impossible for athletes to get a part time job while they're in school. If they do, it's no more than a handful of hours in the off-season and it almost had to be somebody on campus who will work around they school and practice schedules. They don't have the means to get any spending money and I think this idea that "isn't a full scholarship enough?" doesn't hold any water, especially for a baseball player.

Well I know athletes and trainers who can't work and they work summer jobs.

[NewApp]

Who cares what they're spending they're money on. You go out there and sacrifice your body to play a game which brings in millions for the school and a "free education" for yourself. Hate to tell you boys but this "free education" doesn't really hold the value it did when most of you old timers were coming along. It's a basic American economic principle, you are PAID for the work you do. This is the only job in America where a "free education" is suppose to be sufficient. It's a joke give me a break and even the former lawyers of the NCAA know the entire system is bullshit they created simply by coming up with the term "student-athlete." Which brings me to just how counter-productive that term is when you can be cut strictly for athletic purposes. Not to mention they're expected to workout at 6AM then go to class then go watch film then practice then workout again THEN hit the library to study. Meanwhile you guys are up here trying to compare your minimum wage bullshit college job to the amount of time and effort these guys put in. Give me a break, and give the kids what they deserve

I agree with AppStateNews.

The student-athlete system is very transactional even though they never receive cash compensation. Our football players offer a service for ~ $80k worth of tuition, room and board, and staples. You also get amenities that most paying students don't have access to (tutors, athletic training equipment -- not to mention potential exposure to NFL scouts that would be virtually impossible without this arrangement). Every bit of that is wealth accretion/income, at least from a tax perspective.

It's hard to value the service. How much net income does a mid-major football program pull? Not much apparently. After all, shouldn't we know more than most? I mean we just took the FBS leap after a comprehensive study on the economics of FBS football. You tell me the exact dollar amount their service is worth.

It makes a lot more sense for Alabama and Southern Cal. They're more similar to an NFL franchise than we are to them. For us it's OBVIOUSLY a move to catch up and try to remain competitive in recruiting. There is absolutely nothing -- NOTHING -- functional about ULL or any other mid major paying their players aside from trying to stay on pace with the P5. The players' welfare argument is hogwash. They've always gotten a pretty sweet deal for an 18-22 year old who, at this point in his life, is not good enough to play football professionally and likely lacks any other marketable skills.

Well, I'll be damned. I agree with you for once. RP

[Gonzo]

Thank God. Now I can finally sleep at night.

[TheMackAttack]

Well I know athletes and trainers who can't work and they work summer jobs.

That's possible for some athletes and I did it myself, but it was previously mentioned that we are giving scholarships to players who probably wouldn't have been admitted without it and now we expect them to be able to take a full course load in season and not need summer school? And even if they did work a job they might take home $1750 for the whole summer after taxes? Then you have to consider the gas money to get to and from work, lunch, maybe even a gym membership if they don't have access to any other training facilities, and God forbid they spend any money to have fun once in a while, plus they are gonna need some new clothes at some point during their collegiate career and that money isn't exactly gonna go a long way. The expenses pile up. We demand far too much from student athletes to not help them out a little bit.

[bcoach]

Well I know athletes and trainers who can't work and they work summer jobs.

That's possible for some athletes and I did it myself, but it was previously mentioned that we are giving scholarships to players who probably wouldn't have been admitted without it and now we expect them to be able to take a full course load in season and not need summer school? And even if they did work a job they might take home $1750 for the whole summer after taxes? Then you have to consider the gas money to get to and from work, lunch, maybe even a gym membership if they don't have access to any other training facilities, and God forbid they spend any money to have fun once in a while, plus they are gonna need some new clothes at some point during their collegiate career and that money isn't exactly gonna go a long way. The expenses pile up. We demand far too much from student athletes to not help them out a little bit.

There is the answer. You did it yourself. Maybe the real solution is to only let those in who would qualify as students. That way they will not need summer school and can work in the summer.

[moonshine]

Well I know athletes and trainers who can't work and they work summer jobs.

That's possible for some athletes and I did it myself, but it was previously mentioned that we are giving scholarships to players who probably wouldn't have been admitted without it and now we expect them to be able to take a full course load in season and not need summer school? And even if they did work a job they might take home $1750 for the whole summer after taxes? Then you have to consider the gas money to get to and from work, lunch, maybe even a gym membership if they don't have access to any other training facilities, and God forbid they spend any money to have fun once in a while, plus they are gonna need some new clothes at some point during their collegiate career and that money isn't exactly gonna go a long way. The expenses pile up. We demand far too much from student athletes to not help them out a little bit.

It's a wonder any of them made it this far. Who wiped their ass, fed and clothed them the first 18 years? Do coaches not explain the rigors before a player commits? Let's not act like these players were drafted and forced to play ball. They want to play! If they want to make money, quit and get a job.

This however looks like it's coming to pass no matter how much I drink. The next move is to strip all programs who pay their players of tax exempt status, athletic scholarships and maybe reduce the athletic fee. Turn them into actual revenue generating corporations! Pay the players $25,000-$50,000 depending on their value and let them pay their own way through school.

In order to suit up, players must be current on all tuition fees, not on academic probation and maintaining at least 12 credit hours worth of classes.

[TheMackAttack]

There is the answer. You did it yourself. Maybe the real solution is to only let those in who would qualify as students. That way they will not need summer school and can work in the summer.

But I don't pretend that my situation applies to everyone else. I was fortunate to have supportive parents who helped me out financially when I was playing. I was also an honors student in high school and could manage a full course load in season. The real solution is simple: if you expect as much from college athletes as we do, then we should support them with a small stipend.


It's become painfully obvious that people in this thread are operating under the myth that college athletes are coddled and need for nothing because of their scholarships. That couldn't be further from the truth. Take it from somebody who lived it. You have no idea the hours that go in.

[WVAPPeer]

Some of you guys are coming down awfully tough on this - I'm not in Boone so I don't know, but are the APP athletes talking this up? Are the coaches campaigning for this? Is the administration singing its praises? Some seem to be taking this as a personal affront? ---

[WVAPPeer]

Sorry, it posted twice ---

[AppStateNews]

You guys are acting like they don't get ANYTHING!

A large majority of football players (that I know of -- not sure of other athletes) also get a government granted Pell Grant -- roughly $4,500 A SEMESTER. On top of that, they also get a base dollar amount for room and board -- the smart ones that live off campus, get apartments that are cheaper than their allotted amount.. They don't just give that remainder money back.

Plus, they get free meals. I know the meals at the training table aren't great, but they are included in their perks. So they aren't just getting a free education, they are getting free room and board and meals too.

Do I think they struggle with money? Yes, I do. But what college student doesn't (unless mommy and daddy are banks)? Athletes go through the same struggle regular students do. The only difference is their work is done on the field to better their chances at getting to the next level -- their dream (I have already explained the perks they get for this MANY times). Non-athlete students either have to work full time or take on a bunch of debt. Its the same thing, just one is doing something they love to do (play their sport) and the other is doing what needs to be done to eat and pay rent. Both are doing what needs to be done to better themselves and their families.

[AppStateNews]

It's become painfully obvious that people in this thread are operating under the myth that college athletes are coddled and need for nothing because of their scholarships. That couldn't be further from the truth. Take it from somebody who lived it. You have no idea the hours that go in.

Oh, absolutely not. They definitely aren't coddled and don't need anything because of their scholarships. But, at the same time, they are amateur athletes that signed up to be amateur athletes. It's not like this whole phenomenon of the NCAA not paying athletes just happened over night. It's how it's always been. Right or wrong, that's how it is and how it's been when they signed up for it.

They signed up for it because they knew it gave them a greater chance to make it on the next level of their sport. If they don't make it to the next level, they have something to fall back on. They signed up for it to better themselves and their families. They know the stipulations going in -- it's not a surprise to anyone.

I definitely get this side of the fence though and used to stand dead in the center. Now, if the players did not get coaching, strength and condition, nutrition, exposure to scouts, etc. (or had to pay extra for those), then yes, I think they should get paid. But, they do get all of that as their "payment" for adding "value." I do agree the NCAA is a crooked organization though.

[MountainMan]

Other students aren't given those luxuries becuause as of right now they provide ZERO VALUE to the school, the same can't be said for mainly the football team. You point out the "free" luxuries these guys get but you try to abide by the schedule these guys have to , which in itself proves they care about these guys much more as ATHLETES than STUDENTS. Also, the fact that college football holds a monopoly as the only developmental league for the NFL, and that's what it is dont kid yourselves, speaks to how much of a sham this system is. Let's provide "$15k" a year for this kid to come line our pockets even more than they already are.

Trust me I'm grateful to receive a college education but that doesn't automatically equal to CASH in the future. So to say that free tuition should replace the actual money they have earned but instead old white guys goes against our ecomomic system and my economic values. The ONLY profession that brings in BILLIONS yet makes 0

The logic of your arguments simply makes no sense for a school like ASU. It is flawed in a number of ways, but one of the biggest is the implication that athletics is of such huge value to a school like ours. It is fun, it is extra exposure, it builds a sense of community, but IT IS A NET COST, not a NET BENEFIT in terms of $$s -- and that's before we consider using even more resources to pay players. Take away the multi-million dollar subsidy that is provided by student fees and university indirect funds, and we (and most of the mid-level FBS schools) simply would not have the athletic programs we have. Continue to make them more and more expensive in an era with tighter resources being available, and we will finally start to see some schools shut down expensive athletic programs that are net drains on financial resources.

And to suggest that 3 national championships in football is the primary reason for enrollment growth over the past 10 years is just foolishness. We did get more applications after the championships, but we already had significantly more applications than students that were being accepted before the championship years. The growth has more to do with total growth of college age students and the percentage of students attending college. Enrollments have grown virtually everywhere. (How did UNC Charlotte double in enrollment without even having a football team?)

[bcoach]

There is the answer. You did it yourself. Maybe the real solution is to only let those in who would qualify as students. That way they will not need summer school and can work in the summer.

But I don't pretend that my situation applies to everyone else. I was fortunate to have supportive parents who helped me out financially when I was playing. I was also an honors student in high school and could manage a full course load in season. The real solution is simple: if you expect as much from college athletes as we do, then we should support them with a small stipend.


It's become painfully obvious that people in this thread are operating under the myth that college athletes are coddled and need for nothing because of their scholarships. That couldn't be further from the truth. Take it from somebody who lived it. You have no idea the hours that go in.

Actually I know very well the hours that are put in. Knowing that is why I have no problem at all with the benefits they get now. It is the next step I am 100% against.

[NewApp]

Thank God. Now I can finally sleep at night.

Sleep well tonight because it probably won't happen again.