Liberty To Construct 19 New Athletic Fields on River Islands

[appstate77]

Just curious, why all the hate for Liberty University?

At the root of it, all the slights made at Liberty can be traced back to one guy - Jerry Falwell.

I have been in the ministry for nearly 40 years, and I can think of two people who have embarrassed me enough to wish I had not gone into this profession, Jim Bakker and Jerry Falwell. Bakker's transgressions are obvious. Falwell's were subtle and just mean. I caught him in more than one inconsistency, using the end to justify the means of fulfilling the goals of his so called "moral majority". I heard him say near slanderous things about Billy Graham, the man who led me to Christ and who is above reproach in his life and ministry. Him calling Ellen DeGeneres "Ellen Degenerate" did not set well with me either, regardless of her sexual orientation. I have made this point on the Sun Belt BBS and to anyone who will listen, Liberty DOES NOT belong in FBS until they can come to terms with the legacy of their founder and put some distance between LU now and when he was alive.

[Gonzo]

Just curious, why all the hate for Liberty University?

At the root of it, all the slights made at Liberty can be traced back to one guy - Jerry Falwell.

So what? The man did not represent all of the faculty, students, and fans of Liberty University.

Sure it does. They're just not dumb enough to blab about it publically every chance try get.

Any institution that openly discriminates and teaches kids that the earth is only a few thousand years old deserves to be ridiculed.

[HkyMtneer]

The great thing about this project is that is seems it will really help the community go after larger youth soccer tournaments and such, and at the same time allow LU to continue fostering a great working relationship with some of the other colleges in the area (specifically Randolph-Macon which is adjacent to the park where access to the islands originates) to do something on land that has sat vacant for a number of years due to flooding.

Aren't the islands in question a long way from the LU campus? If I remember correctly isn't Randolph and Liberty across town from each other? And if that's the case why would Liberty build their inter mural fields that far from campus? I can understand App's being away, but still we are talking a pretty short distance compared to LU and Randolph.

It is a bit of a drive to be sure. Depending on which way you would choose to traverse town, and at what time of day, you would be looking at a 15 to 20 minute or so drive. The thing is that Liberty, at least historically, has been accustomed to being quite spread out around Lynchburg. These islands were actually home to dorms (then Lynchburg Baptist College's earliest days in the early 70's) and as far back as then buses would run to shuttle students between the river and campus. For a number of years the islands were used as summer camps, for LU and Thomas Road, and the camps were primarily staffed by LU students.

Liberty has owned a large sprawling complex of old industrial buildings, houses, etc. in one part of town (near the Lynchburg Hillcats baseball stadium) that serve the physical plant, as warehousing sites and even the house of the famed "Scaremare" is located in this area. As a side-note, many of this liberal's boards readers would enjoy learning more about Scaremare...so if you're liberal Google it and learn about what Halloween is like at Liberty.

Liberty also owns sporadic properties around town, from some old buildings/apartments downtown to some buildings out in Campbell County. Liberty University's lake is located out near Bedford, about a 15/20 minute drive from campus as well. Liberty owns a few retail complexes around town, one shopping center/mall/etc. adjacent to campus, one older shopping center near downtown, and even the old Sears portion of Lynchburg's main mall. Liberty also owns some hangars out at the regional airport, which is close to campus, and where the fast-growing aviation program and the fleet of Liberty aircraft is now based.

All of that to say, Liberty is fairly spread out and thanks to a wide-ranging bus service (the regional bus service, otherwise known as Greater Lynchburg Transit Company, or GLTC) that is for all intent and purposes owned by Liberty, directed municipally in conjunction, and ran by an outside contractor that provides frequent service to many of the Liberty property around town. I'm sure the same will be the case once the fields are constructed out on the islands in the James River.

[MAD Doctor]

JCline,
Consider that disagreeng with, tongue in cheek poking fun at, and even showing no respect for, does not constitute "hate."
I don't hate Liberty at all. I just don't believe they should get a hall pass from all criticism or even good natured ribbing (plus an FBS invite) just because they feel that they are somehow above it. One reason LU draws such criticism is because of the ridiculous sensitivity of their supporters and defenders. It's like LU is that kid the teacher tells everyone not to joke with because he will cry and tell his parents.

[StumpyCulbreath]

Are these shysters tax exempt on all that commercial real estate? What a joke.

[JCline0429]

Just curious, why all the hate for Liberty University?

At the root of it, all the slights made at Liberty can be traced back to one guy - Jerry Falwell.

So what? The man did not represent all of the faculty, students, and fans of Liberty University.

Sure it does. They're just not dumb enough to blab about it publically every chance try get.

Any institution that openly discriminates and teaches kids that the earth is only a few thousand years old deserves to be ridiculed.

How do you know all of them agree with Falwell? Have you surveyed them?
I've heard blacks say that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton don't represent them. Do you agree with everything members of the administration, faculty and students at Appalachian believe? I sure don't.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Just curious, why all the hate for Liberty University?

At the root of it, all the slights made at Liberty can be traced back to one guy - Jerry Falwell.

So what? The man did not represent all of the faculty, students, and fans of Liberty University.

Sure it does. They're just not dumb enough to blab about it publically every chance try get.

Any institution that openly discriminates and teaches kids that the earth is only a few thousand years old deserves to be ridiculed.

How do you know all of them agree with Falwell? Have you surveyed them?
I've heard blacks say that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton don't represent them. Do you agree with everything members of the administration, faculty and students at Appalachian believe? I sure don't.

I am sure there are some at Liberty that don't buy into the Liberty view of things hook line and sinker, but I would imagine there is a lot more people that go to Liberty knowing the Liberty view on things and go there for that reason. App State does not have an official view on things that one must agree with. At Liberty from what I read one must take a course on creationism. My gut tells me that is not a even and honest discussion with lots of scientific evidence, but it most likely a conversation where the details are already filled in, which is the antithesis of science. I am guessing by Creationism they are really stating the Judeo-Christian view of creation. I doubt Liberty is spending any time delving into all the other views of creation. By the mere fact they would only deal with a Biblical view has implications in their view of what science is. If it truly was a Creation "science" I would imagine Zoroastrian views would be studied in depth, along with Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, Indigenous peoples beliefs etc. Maybe Liberty is doing that and truly studying various beliefs about creationism from a large and wide viewpoint. My gut tells me that is not the case.

[JCline0429]

Do you know for sure that they don't have courses in the scientific theories of creation in addition to the Biblical views?

[JCline0429]

MCLeansville App:
I have no problem with them requiring a course in the Biblical views of creation as long as they have courses in the scientific views and I don't think anyone on this board knows otherwise. If they do, I would like to see the evidence.

[HkyMtneer]

MCLeansville App:
I have no problem with them requiring a course in the Biblical views of creation as long as they have courses in the scientific views and I don't think anyone on this board knows otherwise. If they do, I would like to see the evidence.

Based on what I know, Liberty teaches as much, if not more, about the theory of evolution as any other school does, at least for the average non-science major. At ASU I choose a path that did not include many sciences (just not my thing) and I heard little to nothing spoke of evolution during the path to my Appalachian degrees. During my time at Liberty I remember at least 2 classes in my freshman year alone in which the evolution vs creationism debate was front and center, primarily the Apologetics class, which was/is a favorite of many students due to the presence of said scientific debate. Liberty students love learning about the different viewpoints on this subject and love debating the merits of evolution and creationism. I must admit that Liberty students love to debate pretty much any subject however, as evidenced by the 33 debate national championships (http://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=18495&MID=87496).

Below are a few links that speak to the teaching of evolution at Liberty. One is a release by Chancellor Falwell Jr. in remarks to hate speech originating from Bill Maher. The other is a profile article from the Liberty Journal featuring one of the school's more interesting Biology professors.

http://www.liberty.edu/libertyjournal/i ... &artid=737

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/1 ... 30400.html

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Do you know for sure that they don't have courses in the scientific theories of creation in addition to the Biblical views?

Here is a blurb from a webpage at Liberty.

http://www.liberty.edu/academics/arts-s ... /creation/

No other mention of other creation view. If the world was created by a God or diety, and you were studying it as such as a science would you not want to include other creation views. Bases on the words chosen and not chosen on this webpage it seems to be centered around the Judeo-Christian view only. Liberty has already pigeonholed the conversation into a preset narrow view. THAT is not science and to pass it off as such is problematic in my view. I assume BIBL means a course on the Bible, maybe at the senior level since it is 410.



Center for Creation Studies

A more in-depth, discussion-based class, CRST 390, is also available for students with a science background or strong interest in the study of origins. CRST 390 is an in-depth study of the biblical and scientific views of the origin of the universe, life and man. Evidence and arguments for creation and evolution will be discussed.
The Creation Studies Minor

The minor in creation studies provides a flexible program with a broad training in scientific disciplines that relate to origins as well as the Bible. Students in science or non-science majors can benefit from the in depth study of creation and evolution.

The Creation Studies Minor is 20 hours and classes includes CRST 290 and 390, as well as BIBL 410.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

MCLeansville App:
I have no problem with them requiring a course in the Biblical views of creation as long as they have courses in the scientific views and I don't think anyone on this board knows otherwise. If they do, I would like to see the evidence.

Based on what I know, Liberty teaches as much, if not more, about the theory of evolution as any other school does, at least for the average non-science major. At ASU I choose a path that did not include many sciences (just not my thing) and I heard little to nothing spoke of evolution during the path to my Appalachian degrees. During my time at Liberty I remember at least 2 classes in my freshman year alone in which the evolution vs creationism debate was front and center, primarily the Apologetics class, which was/is a favorite of many students due to the presence of said scientific debate. Liberty students love learning about the different viewpoints on this subject and love debating the merits of evolution and creationism. I must admit that Liberty students love to debate pretty much any subject however, as evidenced by the 33 debate national championships (http://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=18495&MID=87496).

Below are a few links that speak to the teaching of evolution at Liberty. One is a release by Chancellor Falwell Jr. in remarks to hate speech originating from Bill Maher. The other is a profile article from the Liberty Journal featuring one of the school's more interesting Biology professors.

http://www.liberty.edu/libertyjournal/i ... &artid=737

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/1 ... 30400.html

Nothing in science should be written in stone, so I will not suggest evolution should not continued to be looked at critically and studied. However to suggest there is some great debate in the larger science community that evolution is not worthy of being used to explain and predict is a joke, and that creationism is a better method of doing the same is wrong.

The support for evolution in the science community is so great there is a group of scientists that number almost 1,300. There main connection, their first name is Steve. Just one first name draws hundreds to support evolution. I don't sense their really is a debate except those trying to drive home a point regardless of the scientific truths that are present.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Steve

[HkyMtneer]

I never suggested that there were a debate occurring on the concept of evolution vs. creationism in the larger scientific community. Obviously the "scientific community" at-large has made up their mind in regards to this subject and that is perfectly fine. I was simply stating that the debate continues at Liberty, and in the context of Liberty and it's core beliefs I think it is important for the debate to continue in Lynchburg. Unlike many public schools that rarely if ever touch on creationism (and if they do it is often in a mocking manner), I hope Liberty never stops teaching the theory of evolution and debating it's validity, in all aspects, small and large.

[89gradX2]

My wife and I are Appalachian grads. My duaghter is completing her first year at Liberty.

Liberty is a private University with a published list of standards. If you don't agree with those standards, then you should not attend. And honestly, the dress code, the curfew, and the rules about PDA is quite ok with this dad. Their list of convocation speakers is easily recognizable by the outside world. Donald Trump, Kirk Cameron, Ben Stein, James Brown from CBS sports, Franklin Graham etc.

They (the Falwells) do have a political opinion and they do not hide from it. And I would expect a student who attends a Christian University to get a Christian education. If you don't know what you will get when you enroll, that one is on you.

With that said, Liberty is building and have some pretty nice athletic facilities. New baseball field, new track, expanding the basketball and volleyball facility. That alone makes them attractive to other conferences IMO.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

I never suggested that there were a debate occurring on the concept of evolution vs. creationism in the larger scientific community. Obviously the "scientific community" at-large has made up their mind in regards to this subject and that is perfectly fine. I was simply stating that the debate continues at Liberty, and in the context of Liberty and it's core beliefs I think it is important for the debate to continue in Lynchburg. Unlike many public schools that rarely if ever touch on creationism (and if they do it is often in a mocking manner), I hope Liberty never stops teaching the theory of evolution and debating it's validity, in all aspects, small and large.

Just drop the word science after creationism and I don't have a problem. Teach it as religious studies and I don't have a problem. To each their own.

But don't lie and deceive about what one is doing. I don't think that is too high of a threshold to ask, and I do think that passing off creationism as more than a belief system based on religion is a deception.

[fjblair]

Just curious, why all the hate for Liberty University?

I don't know if there is any hate but Liberty has made itself an easy target and other schools do not want to be associated with the school in the SB conference.

[GoApps70]

I think of Liberty more as a cult. Their on line courses are making them rich. Question where so much money is being made on that and such a huge on line enrollment as to things are kosher in that regard. As did the Washington Post article saying the same. Run by Falwell's son. Feel it is a diploma mill.
Can understand students having mandatory chapel 3 times a week, but do not like their creationism. Or their policy to not hire someone who has a different religious view or sexual preference. But they will hire newly released criminals if they attest to having the same religious views.
Did not like the two deans of their legal department saying that homosexuals should be arrested and locked up forever. Many share Falwell's views, students have to abide by them. Disagree with policy thinking that aids is a good thing, and that it is God's wraith on people and the country that allows it. Disagreed with Falwell saying that America deserved 9/11. He also made some really, really bad remarks about Billy Graham. "Billy Graham is the chief servant of Satan in America."

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/stup ... quotes.htm

[HkyMtneer]

I think of Liberty more as a cult. Their on line courses are making them rich. Question where so much money is being made on that and such a huge on line enrollment as to things are kosher in that regard. As did the Washington Post article saying the same. Run by Falwell's son. Feel it is a diploma mill.
Can understand students having mandatory chapel 3 times a week, but do not like their creationism. Or their policy to not hire someone who has a different religious view or sexual preference. But they will hire newly released criminals if they attest to having the same religious views.
Did not like the two deans of their legal department saying that homosexuals should be arrested and locked up forever. Many share Falwell's views, students have to abide by them. Disagree with policy thinking that aids is a good thing, and that it is God's wraith on people and the country that allows it. Disagreed with Falwell saying that America deserved 9/11. He also made some really, really bad remarks about Billy Graham. "Billy Graham is the chief servant of Satan in America."

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/stup ... quotes.htm

Only have a second but Dr. Falwell never said that about Billy Graham. You will find that quote attributed to him on numerous "Quote sites" (which in my previous research are hardly every accurate outside the most well-known and attributable quotes) online but you will never find anywhere with proof that he actually said something like that. In fact, I'm pretty sure common-sense would tell you that the Graham family would not be so close, so intertwined, to Liberty and the Falwell's if the elder Falwell had indeed said something to that effect.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

I think of Liberty more as a cult. Their on line courses are making them rich. Question where so much money is being made on that and such a huge on line enrollment as to things are kosher in that regard. As did the Washington Post article saying the same. Run by Falwell's son. Feel it is a diploma mill.
Can understand students having mandatory chapel 3 times a week, but do not like their creationism. Or their policy to not hire someone who has a different religious view or sexual preference. But they will hire newly released criminals if they attest to having the same religious views.
Did not like the two deans of their legal department saying that homosexuals should be arrested and locked up forever. Many share Falwell's views, students have to abide by them. Disagree with policy thinking that aids is a good thing, and that it is God's wraith on people and the country that allows it. Disagreed with Falwell saying that America deserved 9/11. He also made some really, really bad remarks about Billy Graham. "Billy Graham is the chief servant of Satan in America."

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/stup ... quotes.htm

Only have a second but Dr. Falwell never said that about Billy Graham. You will find that quote attributed to him on numerous "Quote sites" (which in my previous research are hardly every accurate outside the most well-known and attributable quotes) online but you will never find anywhere with proof that he actually said something like that. In fact, I'm pretty sure common-sense would tell you that the Graham family would not be so close, so intertwined, to Liberty and the Falwell's if the elder Falwell had indeed said something to that effect.

I think Abraham Lincoln, the 16th President stated it best, "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their validity."

[StumpyCulbreath]

God, please save us from the Christians.