When will stadium expansion start again?

[ASUMountaineer]

Several people have mentioned Texas State as a model for KBS expansion. I just don't like what they did, of course there may be little choice.

Unfortunately, it seems to be the same situation App is in when it comes to expansion. The west stands can't be built higher as there's now a giant complex with all those spiffy club seats and suites. The east stands are already double-decked and would look ridiculous with a third.

Short or tearing down, digging, and rebuilding the sides it's going to be the end zones.

While not ideal, the Texas State addition is still really nice looking. I like the landscaping and architecture used.

You may be right. In that type of situation, if we put one-level stands in both endzones, it would not have the same issue as newtoasu pointed out with Texas State's stadium. Especially if the stands could be connected.

[Kgfish]

I do not like the design in that picture.

If we are adding we need to do it right, it's starting to look like an erector set stadium.

Cobb and the athletic department screwed this up from the get go. Instead of taking our time and doing it right we rushed into it and now have a facility that is piece milled together. The west stands don't match the east stands, that don't match the end zone seating. The main part of Owens Field House doesn't match the expansion and nothing matches the athletics center. The initial plan was to build the athletic center, then the east stands and lastly the press box, suites & club seating. Unfortunately the desire to build suites and club seats to generate income became the priority.

We should have moved the track. Built new east stands and seating in both end zone. Built new locker, equipment, weight, training rooms and athletic offices under and behind the south (bank) end zone seating. Offices and club seating looking out over the seating. Then knocked down the entire west stands and started from scratch with new seating, press box, club seats and suites. It would have been less expensive than retro fitting the old stadium and a much, much, much better facility. Doing it this way would have cost us a year or 18 months, but that would have long been past. With the setting of KBS ASU would have had one of the best looking stadiums in the nation, at any level.

In a perfect work, yeah...we should have done some things differently but doing it the way you describe was not even close to being in the budget. There is no way we could have built new East stands to match the West. The West stands wouldn't meet code for new construction. We didn't have concrete stands in the budget, and even if we did, we wouldn't have demolished the newest part of our stadium (the lower tier of the East stands) to start over....THAT project was when we missed the boat!

Let's add into that equation, the fact that we don't have the land or budget to build a new track facility (usually around $6 million based on what UNCC and Winthrop have built recently.

By the way, we don't HAVE end zone seating....what we have is temporary, so it's never going to "match". Also, matching Owens isn't important since it won't be there in the long term.

Nobody ever mentions this, but I still think that rebuilding the WEST stands is a possibility. The stands are old, an will ultimately have to be replace. Seems like that is our opportunity. When the new track is built, and we want to update the stadium, we should rebuild the West stands to utilize the extra room. I would think the decks could be aligned to integrate with the athletic complex / suites properly. Of course, I'm not an architect. We would then have matching E/W stands, and connecting the end-zone seating would be much easier.

I don't know if any of this is even possible, much less being discussed, but I think there are a lot of options that we aren't even considering on MMB. We also have to consider the constraints that we are working with. Let's be realistic folks. KBS isn't ideal, but it's a nice facility!

Did not suggest building the east stands to match the west and didn't say anything about concrete. Guess I should have been more specific and said the temporary end zone seating doesn't match and assumed people understood that. As far as demolishing "the newest part of our stadium (the lower tier of the East stands)" well if you have been over there you would realize they are already falling apart.

Chancellor Peacock said the price tag for an new 35,000 seat stadium at the site of the new Watauga high school was in the $70 mil range. Including turning pasture land into a level area, paved parking lots, running all new infrastructure (sewer lines, electrical transformers and main lines) and doing the necessary access work. ASU spent over $50 mil on athletic facilities. The baseball stadium, softball facility up fit, new floor in Varsity and indoor practice facility accounted for $10-12 million.

I think our administration let their egos get in the way of their heads. I've been associated with construction for 30 years. What I laid out came from ideas of customers and friends in the industry. All said we could have built more for what was spent and had a better facility. A good friend - App grad - in heavy equipment business 40 years says the west stands and old pressbox could have been knocked down and hauled off is 30 days. A new steel based pressbox and stands put up in 120 days. We could have also saved excluding some of the extravagance in the suites and club section.

Retrofitting existing structures cost 30-40% more than building new. What ran up the cost of the project was the athletics center. Anytime you build that large of a structure that high in the air the cost goes up dramatically. The site prep contractor told me it cost over $1 mil to excavate for the footprint and build the slurry wall behind it. There is one million that could have been saved had it been built in the south endzone. Of course all this depended on moving the track first. The university wasn't willing to do that, now we are stuck.

[bcoach]

I think we should first pay the balance of what has already been done. Then I think you have to take a long hard look at what it would cost to lower the field and then consider what you may find after that is started. I really think that when that is seriously examined you will not see the field lowered. Just consider this for example. What if there were a burial ground discovered. How many years do you think it would be before another game was played at The Rock? Underground stream? Govt involvement? The track really does not bother me but if it is that big a deal paint the thing green just kidding. Spend $100k and pull it up plant some grass and play ball. You got FBS, You got the best facilities in SBC, you got a promise of further expansion and still the b----ing goes on. Whatever happens it is never done the way it should have been. This is proof of what others have said. Many here will NEVER be happy. There is NOTHING that could EVER be done that would be good enough. Funny how things go when people are spending OTHER peoples money.

[vegattk]

I think we should first pay the balance of what has already been done. Then I think you have to take a long hard look at what it would cost to lower the field and then consider what you may find after that is started. I really think that when that is seriously examined you will not see the field lowered. Just consider this for example. What if there were a burial ground discovered. How many years do you think it would be before another game was played at The Rock? Underground stream? Govt involvement? The track really does not bother me but if it is that big a deal paint the thing green just kidding. Spend $100k and pull it up plant some grass and play ball. You got FBS, You got the best facilities in SBC, you got a promise of further expansion and still the b----ing goes on. Whatever happens it is never done the way it should have been. This is proof of what others have said. Many here will NEVER be happy. There is NOTHING that could EVER be done that would be good enough. Funny how things go when people are spending OTHER peoples money.

I agree broach.. With the increases in budget coming we need to clean the financial slate as much as we can before incurring more costs.

Plus I think it would be wise to make sure the demand will be there for additional seating in the FBS.

[GlassOnion]

The ideal expansion for me, would be to disassemble the aluminum deck, remove the crumbling concrete stands on both sides, and build new ones, at a slightly altered slope, about 15 ft from the field to the current west side height, on both sides. May be cheaper than lowering the field, would add a couple thousand seats, and would address some of the maintenance issues with the current concrete stands. It would also enable the planning of a more cohesive endzone seating expansion. I'd reuse the aluminum deck at the future T&F facility.

[Kgfish]

The ideal expansion for me, would be to disassemble the aluminum deck, remove the crumbling concrete stands on both sides, and build new ones, at a slightly altered slope, about 15 ft from the field to the current west side height, on both sides. May be cheaper than lowering the field, would add a couple thousand seats, and would address some of the maintenance issues with the current concrete stands. It would also enable the planning of a more cohesive endzone seating expansion. I'd reuse the aluminum deck at the future T&F facility.

Following the last home game of 2004 Stanford began tearing down their old 85,000 seat stadium. They rebuilt an entirely new 50,000 seat facility - seating, pressbox, suites, the whole deal - completing it prior to the opening game of 2006. It is all metal - oh the horrors! - and if that is good enough for Stanford it should be good enough for ASU.

http://www.instantactionsports.com/spor ... tadium.jpg

[GlassOnion]

I dont mind metal stands, but I would like the stadium to have some uniformity in materials and quality. Biggest question I have is how to tie in a new endzone expansion, with the current configuration. The upper deck was a quick fix, and while Im not that tore up over it, it does look like an afterthought.

[asumike83]

Aside from that sketch that circulated a year or two ago, seems like it's been crickets about specific KBS expansion plans. There was the second rendering in the pamphlet from last year's Spring Tour with another angle on the same idea but no further explanation.

I'd be happy just to hear a plan and estimated timeline at this point.

[AppAttack]

THIS. ^^^

[GlassOnion]

Plus I think it would be wise to make sure the demand will be there for additional seating in the FBS.

Thats a terrible excuse.

When you can play Elon and 7,000 people dont have an actual seat, there is demand for additional seats. When you average 2 and 3 and 4 thousand more in attendance than you have seats, as App has done the past several years, there is demand.

At current levels 28,000-29,000 actual seats seems reasonable.

[asumike83]

Permanent capacity at KBS is 21,650. We have averaged around 130% capacity for 5 years running. The demand is there. Rolling in golf bleachers won't cut it long-term. No need to go crazy but the football program should have a dedicated 30,000 seat facility.

[Gonzo]

Plus I think it would be wise to make sure the demand will be there for additional seating in the FBS.

Even for you, Veg, this is a completely out-of-touch statement.

I'm convinced you haven't been to a game in 8 years...

[AppGrad78]

Plus I think it would be wise to make sure the demand will be there for additional seating in the FBS.

Even for you, Veg, this is a completely out-of-touch statement.

I'm convinced you haven't been to a game in 8 years...

Veg does a good job of speaking for himself, but I believe he's bringing up the possibility that we might initially struggle on the field in FBS and consequently our gate is impacted.

[vegattk]

Plus I think it would be wise to make sure the demand will be there for additional seating in the FBS.

Even for you, Veg, this is a completely out-of-touch statement.

I'm convinced you haven't been to a game in 8 years...

Been to EVERY home game since 1997. Last season I'm pretty sure there were a few games where I could see the glare of empty seats on the upperdeck pretty clearly...

[3rd]

Last year i feel is hard to tell the size of the crowd, because i remember almost every game their was rain.

[TheMoody1]

Plus I think it would be wise to make sure the demand will be there for additional seating in the FBS.

Even for you, Veg, this is a completely out-of-touch statement.

I'm convinced you haven't been to a game in 8 years...

Been to EVERY home game since 1997. Last season I'm pretty sure there were a few games where I could see the glare of empty seats on the upperdeck pretty clearly...

You may have seen aluminum but tickets for those seats were sold.

[Gonzo]

Plus I think it would be wise to make sure the demand will be there for additional seating in the FBS.

Even for you, Veg, this is a completely out-of-touch statement.

I'm convinced you haven't been to a game in 8 years...

Veg does a good job of speaking for himself, but I believe he's bringing up the possibility that we might initially struggle on the field in FBS and consequently our gate is impacted.

Speculation and "what if's" don't hold much water when we're talking about a stadium that's been at 130% capacity for 5 years against relatively uninteresting competition.

He's reaching (as usual), to try and cast doubt and negativity on the FBS move.

I doubt there are many sports venues in the entire country that have more cause for expansion than Kidd Brewer Stadium.

[Gonzo]

Plus I think it would be wise to make sure the demand will be there for additional seating in the FBS.

Even for you, Veg, this is a completely out-of-touch statement.

I'm convinced you haven't been to a game in 8 years...

Been to EVERY home game since 1997. Last season I'm pretty sure there were a few games where I could see the glare of empty seats on the upperdeck pretty clearly...

The only games I've seen since I was a freshman at App that weren't packed to the gills were playoff games.

[vegattk]

Plus I think it would be wise to make sure the demand will be there for additional seating in the FBS.

Even for you, Veg, this is a completely out-of-touch statement.

I'm convinced you haven't been to a game in 8 years...

Been to EVERY home game since 1997. Last season I'm pretty sure there were a few games where I could see the glare of empty seats on the upperdeck pretty clearly...

The only games I've seen since I was a freshman at App that weren't packed to the gills were playoff games.

I won't disagree with that statement...

Where do you stand/sit in the stadium? If you're down with the students I can understand not being able to see the "whole" picture, but from my seat there certainly was empty space on the East side and lots of empty space on the hill.

[vegattk]

Plus I think it would be wise to make sure the demand will be there for additional seating in the FBS.

Even for you, Veg, this is a completely out-of-touch statement.

I'm convinced you haven't been to a game in 8 years...

Been to EVERY home game since 1997. Last season I'm pretty sure there were a few games where I could see the glare of empty seats on the upperdeck pretty clearly...

You may have seen aluminum but tickets for those seats were sold.

Good point Moody... Would more empty-sold seats be a good thing for App football?

I, for one, think that a packed stadium is a much better atmosphere than an empty one... Not sure if empty seats would provide a "better" atmosphere even if they are "sold".