Discussion with App alums

[vegattk]

Listen, we all know that App HAD to do something. Heck, I was one of the founding fathers that coined the term SmallCON.

But it doesn't mean that we have to be happy about it or like the way the process was handled. Some of us can see through the rose-colored glasses.

I'm trying to understand your viewpoint. Are you upset that App is moving to the Sun Belt, that you weren't allowed enough input on the decision or both?

You acknowledge that with the way the NCAA landscape is changing, App had to do something. If you did not like the SoCon and you do not like the Sun Belt, what would you have had them do?

Our options were stay put, go to the CAA or go to the Sun Belt. Both of those conferences would mean an increase in travel, while another FCS conference would not have provided an increase in revenue now that the CAA has been gutted into a one-bid basketball league.

App spent several years groveling at the feet of C-USA to no avail because we do not offer a media market. If the administration continued down that road, it would have meant a long-term stay in the SoCon. C-USA was not going to invite an FCS App State, especially with our lone cheerleader having left for the AAC.

It is just frustrating to continually see pictures of our program being flushed down the toilet, 'Sun Belch' logos of the one FBS conference who gave App a chance to play FBS football and "I reserve the right to say I told you so". The decision has been made and the program needs our support. Reserving the right to say "I told you so" could very well be a self-fulfilling prophecy if enough of our fans get on board with that thinking. Very counterproductive at this point.

I'm more upset at the situation. In my mind it ended up as One of those "lose-lose" situations.

The toilet pic only represents the bowl system.. Of which I absolutely LOATHE. When App becomes part of a system that will employ some sort of common sense postseason you better believe that the picture will change.

The input argument/problem only stems from what I believe was a mismanagement of how this decision was reached. Cobb and Co. Could've handled this (as well as other aspects of his job) much better in terms of simple communication.

[Gonzo]

I'll still be behind my Apps 100%

Your signature pictures prove otherwise.

This.

The Sun Belch picture especially. Guests from other Sun Belt schools visit this forum and it reflets badly on the fan base.

Since when have the members of this board ever cared how we look to other schools' fans?

When we're making a first impression with a new conference it's a little more important.

Was there not a thread recently talking about how foolish several GaSo posters were being on CSNBBS?

[vegattk]

I think it unfair to characterize as stupid or naive those who hold a different view on the move up from most of us here. It is too simple to pass them off as people who want to be able to drive up 10 minutes before the game, get their spot in the stadium lot, and slip into their seats without a hassle. Or to suggest they aren't folks who give to Yosef. Or who don't care about ASU's future. While I disagree with them, it doesn't mean their opinion is necessarily irrational. We need to acknowledge that quite a few of our fellow fans and alums are not in favor of the move. I doubt we convince them of the soundness of the decision by denigrating them.

Good post, Jerry. As always, you're one of the mature and reasonable adults in the room.

I've spoken with a small handful of my peers, including former teammates and classmates from several" years gone by. It's a mixed bag with them. All want what's best for Appalachian; but differ somewhat in their opinions of what's going to be the best "station in life" for our alma mater. There's quite a bit of interest among these folks in continuing to schedule long-time, traditional opponents Davidson, WCU, ETSU, El Cid and Furman in non-conference games (in all sports).

I've been in Boone two or three days a week since last September participating in a cardiac rehab program associated with Watauga Med Center and ASU's Human Performance Lab. Being there so often has afforded me the opportunity talk with several undergrad and grad students; some older, retired App grads and more recent App grads who reside in either Boone or Blowing Rock; and several downtown merchants (especially in t-shirt shops and restaurants).

The feeling I get is that there's general acceptance of the move with an asterisk. Nearly everyone, myself included, would have liked to see us playing in a more geographically compact conference on the east coast or in the mid-Atlantic. Travel is going to be an issue. No one with whom I've spoken is confident about how well our fans will travel to Jonesboro, AR or Las Cruces, NM. On the other hand, in this era of realignment, it can't be completely ruled out that we'll be in a different conference before we ever play a Sunbelt contest.

Just about everyone laments the manner in which the administration handled the pursuit of a new conference home. Most spoke of the secrecy and lack of communication with students/fans/alumni that seemed to be the "modus operandi" of the AD and SID. That could have used some heavy tweaking to keep stakeholders from getting restless.

Then, there's a very small group of kooks in Boone who are convinced that this is yet more university encroachment on Boone's quiet, small town image and the forerunner of a huge increase in the local crime rate. Methinks that's a wee bit over the top.

I don't think this is about travelling to away games... never has been. It's about improving our athletics program and university stature. It's about ensuring that home attendance will continue and even increase. It is human nature to look at things from a selfish standpoint... which is where a lot of the comments you have heard seem to be based. Fans at away games, playoffs, and traffic/crime feedback are "me first" points of view that lack understanding of how important this move is for Appalachian State. It's not about the fans, its about what is best for the school... sometimes those interests are aligned, sometimes not.

As for secrecy and conspiracy theorists: The reality is, as much as we feel entitled to, we do NOT have a right to know everything there is to know, nor do we have the right to expect all information will be shared with us in decisions like these. Despite what some folks think, I feel this process was very deliberate, inclusive, and open.

The "away games are too far away for me to go to" argument will eventually be dispelled by the non-conference "away games" that will begin to appear on our schedule in the future. I fully expect trips to Spartanburg, Greenville (SC), Burlington, etc., to eventually be replaced by trips to Greenville (NC), Winston-Salem, Blacksburg, etc. I have seen some bitching about those teams perhaps not being willing to come to Boone; frankly, at this point it doesn't matter to me where we play them, as long as we play them. We can worry about having them in Boone at some point, but right now, let's just get them on the schedule.

Good point... And I seriously hoe you're right..

[vegattk]

I'll still be behind my Apps 100%

Your signature pictures prove otherwise.

This.

The Sun Belch picture especially. Guests from other Sun Belt schools visit this forum and it reflets badly on the fan base.

Since when have the members of this board ever cared how we look to other schools' fans?

When we're making a first impression with a new conference it's a little more important.

Was there not a thread recently talking about how foolish several GaSo posters were being on CSNBBS?

In their house I'll be as cordially as my mother taught me... But in my house I'll put my feet up on the coffee table when I want to.

[Gonzo]

When App becomes part of a system that will employ some sort of common sense postseason you better believe that the picture will change.

Oh you mean the new FBS playoff system that will begin to take shape just as App becomes bowl eligible?

[vegattk]

When App becomes part of a system that will employ some sort of common sense postseason you better believe that the picture will change.

Oh you mean the new FBS playoff system that will begin to take shape just as App becomes bowl eligible?

Hahahahahahahahahaha.. You really believe a Sun Belt team will make the selection? Hahahahahahahahahahaha...

One day there will be another split.. That's when we'll get back into the picture in terms of a playoff.. But I'm not holding my breath.

[Gonzo]

You really believe a Sun Belt team will make the selection?

Yes. As do the others that have been keeping up.

[ASUMountaineer]

In their house I'll be as cordially as my mother taught me... But in my house I'll put my feet up on the coffee table when I want to.

With a dip in your mouth? Clearly Veg's account has been hacked by Chris Moore.

[JTApps1]

Wonder how many fans will make it to ESPN broadcast Tues, Wed or Thurs games.

I'll be there as will our entire crew. Employers give vacation days for a reason. I will also enjoy seeing us on TV for these road games instead of watching the inhouse feed from UTC with the spinning C, or listening to the overly biased announcers at Samford every other year.

[TheMoody1]

But it doesn't mean that we have to be happy about it or like the way the process was handled. Some of us can see through the rose-colored glasses.

I understand if someone is not happy with the decision, but I am not sure what was wrong with the process. A formal study was announced and completed with the recommendation APP move to the FBS. App stated we were ready to go and were waiting for an invitation from an FBS conference. The invite came and App accepted: end of story.

What would you have had them do differently?

[Maddog1956]

This thread has went several directions, but I thought I'd hit a few points.

1) App Alums - I have talked with several alum's (yosef supporters from club boxes, stadium lot and down) and non-yosef supporters and most were happy with the status quo. That should be expected we had lived at the top for several years. Most would not have chosen CUSA as their first (realistic) choice if we did move up. Most don't like the current footprint for the SB and they don't like the travel times (the ones that go to games). They do however see what the SonCon has become however and are more acceptable that we had to move. Most have resigned to that fact that something had to happen. They would like to add JMU or Liberty so we can have a another close game. They are excited about having more games on TV and the opportunity for OOC games with other FBS teams including ECU, ACC, etc. Most would like to also schedule WCU and UNCC. I've not heard anyone say they would support APP less! They might if the team sucks, but I that's always the case. (See Duke football, no crazies there). Students seems to be all over the place and get a lot of their opinion from their parents about it or don't care.

2) Unless they get crazy with the student fees no one will care! They raise tuition all the time and everyone only notices the bottom line. I have two girls at App now and $50, $100, $200 is not going to change my value of an APP eduction and I can't believe it would change anyones. I'm not rich, but there is so many other cost to consider (and sources of income, loans, job, grants, etc) that totally outweighs this. If they raise those fees, they might not raise them somewhere else so to me it's a wash.

If you're choosing a school based on a $100-$400/year decision, I think you're missing the boat anyway. If it was a major issue for a lot of students WCU would be packing them in and they're not (one of my girls went to WCU for a year so i know the cost different). BTW, $100 per semester = for 17,000 students is $3.4 million. If they raise those fees, they might not raise them somewhere else so to me it's a wash.

3) Almost "ALL" APP supporters are a fan of another team(s). We had to be if we ever wanted someone to pull for in college. They might not be diehard fans, but they have another team they pull for (and post on facebook). Plus many grew up with these other teams, it's a family team in some cases. However I do think APP supporters are a loyal bunch and the seats are full because of it and our success. I'm seeing more APP stuff now than anytime since I graduated (early 80'). Pretty good since it doesn't say NC in the name and that's the reason a lot of ppl wear UNC and NCSU stuff. I also think that as we start competing at a higher level with some of these other teams we'll see more "APP only" fans, but it really doesn't matter. It's just like a child, having another one doesn't mean you love the first one less. After all who wants to go through March Madness without a team to pull for?

Just my 2 cents, mileage may vary...

[ASUMountaineer]

This thread has went several directions, but I thought I'd hit a few points.

1) App Alums - I have talked with several alum's (yosef supporters from club boxes, stadium lot and down) and non-yosef supporters and most were happy with the status quo. That should be expected we had lived at the top for several years. Most would not have chosen CUSA as their first (realistic) choice if we did move up. Most don't like the current footprint for the SB and they don't like the travel times (the ones that go to games). They do however see what the SonCon has become however and are more acceptable that we had to move. Most have resigned to that fact that something had to happen. They would like to add JMU or Liberty so we can have a another close game. They are excited about having more games on TV and the opportunity for OOC games with other FBS teams including ECU, ACC, etc. Most would like to also schedule WCU and UNCC. I've not heard anyone say they would support APP less! They might if the team sucks, but I that's always the case. (See Duke football, no crazies there). Students seems to be all over the place and get a lot of their opinion from their parents about it or don't care.

2) Unless they get crazy with the student fees no one will care! They raise tuition all the time and everyone only notices the bottom line. I have two girls at App now and $50, $100, $200 is not going to change my value of an APP eduction and I can't believe it would change anyones. I'm not rich, but there is so many other cost to consider (and sources of income, loans, job, grants, etc) that totally outweighs this. If they raise those fees, they might not raise them somewhere else so to me it's a wash.

If you're choosing a school based on a $100-$400/year decision, I think you're missing the boat anyway. If it was a major issue for a lot of students WCU would be packing them in and they're not (one of my girls went to WCU for a year so i know the cost different). BTW, $100 per semester = for 17,000 students is $3.4 million. If they raise those fees, they might not raise them somewhere else so to me it's a wash.

3) Almost "ALL" APP supporters are a fan of another team(s). We had to be if we ever wanted someone to pull for in college. They might not be diehard fans, but they have another team they pull for (and post on facebook). Plus many grew up with these other teams, it's a family team in some cases. However I do think APP supporters are a loyal bunch and the seats are full because of it and our success. I'm seeing more APP stuff now than anytime since I graduated (early 80'). Pretty good since it doesn't say NC in the name and that's the reason a lot of ppl wear UNC and NCSU stuff. I also think that as we start competing at a higher level with some of these other teams we'll see more "APP only" fans, but it really doesn't matter. It's just like a child, having another one doesn't mean you love the first one less. After all who wants to go through March Madness without a team to pull for?

Just my 2 cents, mileage may vary...

I think that your post is good, probably your best post to date.

I do want to address the bold part. I typically just pull against particular teams when it comes to March.

[appmandan]

This is all getting a bit ridiculous and off topic. We're grown men for christ's sake. I've learned from message boards and facebook that some people aren't happy unless they're unhappy, so there's no point arguing. I say let them make a fool of themselves and just ignore them.

I too don't know how one can say they support the Apps 100% and then NOT support a move the Apps make. I think that's more in the neighborhood of 93% support (I know you ment on the field, it's a joke).

The move had been dreamed/talked about since the 80s. It was a topic when I was in school in the early 2000's, and the NCs made the voices a little louder. Now the change in the landscape of college football forced a decision to be made.

[appvette]

When App becomes part of a system that will employ some sort of common sense postseason you better believe that the picture will change.

Oh you mean the new FBS playoff system that will begin to take shape just as App becomes bowl eligible?

Hahahahahahahahahaha.. You really believe a Sun Belt team will make the selection? Hahahahahahahahahahaha...

One day there will be another split.. That's when we'll get back into the picture in terms of a playoff.. But I'm not holding my breath.

You don't like the playoffs because you don't think App will ever have a chance of making it. Seems like the bowls are perfect for you because it gives mid major programs a chance to win something in the post season.

[appvette]

Once again... One can still be behind a team 100% even if they don't like the company they keep.

That's like bad mouthing your wife's friends or place of employment every chance you get but then saying you support her 100%. Doesn't work that way.

[asumike83]

I'm more upset at the situation. In my mind it ended up as One of those "lose-lose" situations.

The toilet pic only represents the bowl system.. Of which I absolutely LOATHE. When App becomes part of a system that will employ some sort of common sense postseason you better believe that the picture will change.

The input argument/problem only stems from what I believe was a mismanagement of how this decision was reached. Cobb and Co. Could've handled this (as well as other aspects of his job) much better in terms of simple communication.

I can understand that, we all would have liked to know more as the process unfolded. I just don't understand how you can be so vehemently opposed to the move when you acknowledge that there was no better option out there.

Appalachian did what they had to do. The SoCon, while it was a great home for us for many years, was going in a different direction and no longer a good fit. There are risks involved, there will be a transition period but with the continued support of our fans, the move will be a success. All the negativity about the move accomplishes nothing and will only hinder our progress.

[vegattk]

I'm more upset at the situation. In my mind it ended up as One of those "lose-lose" situations.

The toilet pic only represents the bowl system.. Of which I absolutely LOATHE. When App becomes part of a system that will employ some sort of common sense postseason you better believe that the picture will change.

The input argument/problem only stems from what I believe was a mismanagement of how this decision was reached. Cobb and Co. Could've handled this (as well as other aspects of his job) much better in terms of simple communication.

I can understand that, we all would have liked to know more as the process unfolded. I just don't understand how you can be so vehemently opposed to the move when you acknowledge that there was no better option out there.

Appalachian did what they had to do. The SoCon, while it was a great home for us for many years, was going in a different direction and no longer a good fit. There are risks involved, there will be a transition period but with the continued support of our fans, the move will be a success. All the negativity about the move accomplishes nothing and will only hinder our progress.

Good point... my only response is that when I'm starving and someone brings me a plate of pinto beans.. I'll certainly eat it.. but it doesn't mean I'll like it!

(And before this turns into a how-dare-you-hate-pinto-beans rant... I do hate pinto beans. SO THERE! )

[ASUMountaineer]

I'm more upset at the situation. In my mind it ended up as One of those "lose-lose" situations.

The toilet pic only represents the bowl system.. Of which I absolutely LOATHE. When App becomes part of a system that will employ some sort of common sense postseason you better believe that the picture will change.

The input argument/problem only stems from what I believe was a mismanagement of how this decision was reached. Cobb and Co. Could've handled this (as well as other aspects of his job) much better in terms of simple communication.

I can understand that, we all would have liked to know more as the process unfolded. I just don't understand how you can be so vehemently opposed to the move when you acknowledge that there was no better option out there.

Appalachian did what they had to do. The SoCon, while it was a great home for us for many years, was going in a different direction and no longer a good fit. There are risks involved, there will be a transition period but with the continued support of our fans, the move will be a success. All the negativity about the move accomplishes nothing and will only hinder our progress.

Good point... my only response is that when I'm starving and someone brings me a plate of pinto beans.. I'll certainly eat it.. but it doesn't mean I'll like it!

(And before this turns into a how-dare-you-hate-pinto-beans rant... I do hate pinto beans. SO THERE! )

Oh Veg...I thought I knew you. So disappointed...

[Gonzo]

FBS football is no pinto beans.

I'd call it a t-bone steak and the FCS starvation.

The SEC is an angus fillet.

[vegattk]

FBS football is no pinto beans.

I'd call it a t-bone steak and the FCS starvation.

The SEC is an angus fillet.

The SEC would be Kobe Steak with a truffle-mushroom risotto washed down with a cold home-made hefeweizen while Kate Upton gives you a back massage...