Discussion with App alums

Discussion about anything related to the Sun Belt Conference
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asu66
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Re: Discussion with App alums

Unread post by asu66 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:45 pm

hapapp wrote:I think it unfair to characterize as stupid or naive those who hold a different view on the move up from most of us here. It is too simple to pass them off as people who want to be able to drive up 10 minutes before the game, get their spot in the stadium lot, and slip into their seats without a hassle. Or to suggest they aren't folks who give to Yosef. Or who don't care about ASU's future. While I disagree with them, it doesn't mean their opinion is necessarily irrational. We need to acknowledge that quite a few of our fellow fans and alums are not in favor of the move. I doubt we convince them of the soundness of the decision by denigrating them.

Good post, Jerry. As always, you're one of the mature and reasonable adults in the room.

I've spoken with a small handful of my peers, including former teammates and classmates from several" years gone by. It's a mixed bag with them. All want what's best for Appalachian; but differ somewhat in their opinions of what's going to be the best "station in life" for our alma mater. There's quite a bit of interest among these folks in continuing to schedule long-time, traditional opponents Davidson, WCU, ETSU, El Cid and Furman in non-conference games (in all sports).

I've been in Boone two or three days a week since last September participating in a cardiac rehab program associated with Watauga Med Center and ASU's Human Performance Lab. Being there so often has afforded me the opportunity talk with several undergrad and grad students; some older, retired App grads and more recent App grads who reside in either Boone or Blowing Rock; and several downtown merchants (especially in t-shirt shops and restaurants).

The feeling I get is that there's general acceptance of the move with an asterisk. Nearly everyone, myself included, would have liked to see us playing in a more geographically compact conference on the east coast or in the mid-Atlantic. Travel is going to be an issue. No one with whom I've spoken is confident about how well our fans will travel to Jonesboro, AR or Las Cruces, NM. On the other hand, in this era of realignment, it can't be completely ruled out that we'll be in a different conference before we ever play a Sunbelt contest.

Just about everyone laments the manner in which the administration handled the pursuit of a new conference home. Most spoke of the secrecy and lack of communication with students/fans/alumni that seemed to be the "modus operandi" of the AD and SID. That could have used some heavy tweaking to keep stakeholders from getting restless.

Then, there's a very small group of kooks in Boone who are convinced that this is yet more university encroachment on Boone's quiet, small town image and the forerunner of a huge increase in the local crime rate. :roll: Methinks that's a wee bit over the top.
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Re: Discussion with App alums

Unread post by canes_mj » Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:19 pm

The majority of the people I have spoken to generally point out the potential pros and cons to the move. For example, going to miss the playoffs, but we get to schedule better teams. Most of the anti-FBS sentiment I've encountered focuses on giving up the playoffs for bowls, or feeling that we're going to be irrelevant in the SB. Very few people I've spoken to have extreme views for or against. Most just want what's best for App and see both sides of the issue.

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Re: Discussion with App alums

Unread post by GoAppsGo92 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:34 pm

rbarthle17 wrote:
Saint3333 wrote:Has anyone run into an App alum that asked you your thoughts on the Sun Belt move.
In talking to about a dozen of my ASU friends (none of whom are message board participants), they were all 100% against this move. Now not all of them are sports fans, but they all thought this was a bad move for ASU, that it will cost too much and there are no gains to be had.

I think this is a lot more common a sentiment than some people here want to believe. I thought this before, but had no desire to fight with the 1-A or Bust crowd on it, but I believe the combined total of people that don't like the move and those who literally don't care one way or another far outstrips those excited by the move. The vocal minority won out in this case.
I knew there would be some way for folks to try to continue the debate that is long, long, long resolved. The move now is to come up with idle conversation and pass it off as survey data. Well folks, surveys were part of the athletic committee's work and found majority of alumni and students in favor of the move to FBS.

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Re: Discussion with App alums

Unread post by GoAppsGo92 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:54 pm

asu66 wrote:
hapapp wrote:I think it unfair to characterize as stupid or naive those who hold a different view on the move up from most of us here. It is too simple to pass them off as people who want to be able to drive up 10 minutes before the game, get their spot in the stadium lot, and slip into their seats without a hassle. Or to suggest they aren't folks who give to Yosef. Or who don't care about ASU's future. While I disagree with them, it doesn't mean their opinion is necessarily irrational. We need to acknowledge that quite a few of our fellow fans and alums are not in favor of the move. I doubt we convince them of the soundness of the decision by denigrating them.

Good post, Jerry. As always, you're one of the mature and reasonable adults in the room.

I've spoken with a small handful of my peers, including former teammates and classmates from several" years gone by. It's a mixed bag with them. All want what's best for Appalachian; but differ somewhat in their opinions of what's going to be the best "station in life" for our alma mater. There's quite a bit of interest among these folks in continuing to schedule long-time, traditional opponents Davidson, WCU, ETSU, El Cid and Furman in non-conference games (in all sports).

I've been in Boone two or three days a week since last September participating in a cardiac rehab program associated with Watauga Med Center and ASU's Human Performance Lab. Being there so often has afforded me the opportunity talk with several undergrad and grad students; some older, retired App grads and more recent App grads who reside in either Boone or Blowing Rock; and several downtown merchants (especially in t-shirt shops and restaurants).

The feeling I get is that there's general acceptance of the move with an asterisk. Nearly everyone, myself included, would have liked to see us playing in a more geographically compact conference on the east coast or in the mid-Atlantic. Travel is going to be an issue. No one with whom I've spoken is confident about how well our fans will travel to Jonesboro, AR or Las Cruces, NM. On the other hand, in this era of realignment, it can't be completely ruled out that we'll be in a different conference before we ever play a Sunbelt contest.

Just about everyone laments the manner in which the administration handled the pursuit of a new conference home. Most spoke of the secrecy and lack of communication with students/fans/alumni that seemed to be the "modus operandi" of the AD and SID. That could have used some heavy tweaking to keep stakeholders from getting restless.

Then, there's a very small group of kooks in Boone who are convinced that this is yet more university encroachment on Boone's quiet, small town image and the forerunner of a huge increase in the local crime rate. :roll: Methinks that's a wee bit over the top.
I don't think this is about travelling to away games... never has been. It's about improving our athletics program and university stature. It's about ensuring that home attendance will continue and even increase. It is human nature to look at things from a selfish standpoint... which is where a lot of the comments you have heard seem to be based. Fans at away games, playoffs, and traffic/crime feedback are "me first" points of view that lack understanding of how important this move is for Appalachian State. It's not about the fans, its about what is best for the school... sometimes those interests are aligned, sometimes not.

As for secrecy and conspiracy theorists: The reality is, as much as we feel entitled to, we do NOT have a right to know everything there is to know, nor do we have the right to expect all information will be shared with us in decisions like these. Despite what some folks think, I feel this process was very deliberate, inclusive, and open.

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Re: Discussion with App alums

Unread post by AppGrad78 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:55 pm

GoAppsGo92 wrote:
rbarthle17 wrote:
Saint3333 wrote:Has anyone run into an App alum that asked you your thoughts on the Sun Belt move.
In talking to about a dozen of my ASU friends (none of whom are message board participants), they were all 100% against this move. Now not all of them are sports fans, but they all thought this was a bad move for ASU, that it will cost too much and there are no gains to be had.

I think this is a lot more common a sentiment than some people here want to believe. I thought this before, but had no desire to fight with the 1-A or Bust crowd on it, but I believe the combined total of people that don't like the move and those who literally don't care one way or another far outstrips those excited by the move. The vocal minority won out in this case.
I knew there would be some way for folks to try to continue the debate that is long, long, long resolved. The move now is to come up with idle conversation and pass it off as survey data. Well folks, surveys were part of the athletic committee's work and found majority of alumni and students in favor of the move to FBS.
Source?

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Re: Discussion with App alums

Unread post by Kgfish » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:11 pm

The reality is it is over and done. Time to get on board and stop complaining about something that isn't going to change.
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Re: Discussion with App alums

Unread post by AppGrad78 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:26 pm

Doug. I agree with you to a point. But we have to be careful that you guys in the "let's play big-boy football" camp don't rewrite history at the expense of the truth. Most of us know that there was no survey, but there are some who will read a reckless, inaccurate post like the one above and take it as fact.

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Re: Discussion with App alums

Unread post by Saint3333 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:54 pm

There were focus groups and the two I witnessed were for the move.

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Re: Discussion with App alums

Unread post by vegattk » Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:30 pm

Just because someone disagrees with how you think does not make your ideas better and theirs worse.

With any big decision there will be those for and against. We can hope that both sides are equally weighed and all avenues are explored before reaching a decision. (Which is why our government isn't working anymore, but that's a whole 'nother story)

I know I was never asked for an opinion (despite being a Yosef member for several years) and I can only hope a good sample size was used to come up with a general consensus (despite my belief that certain decision makers stacked the deck for the move). But because this process was so closed its hard NOT to believe something fishy happened.....

Yet the trigger has been pressed.. I'll still be behind my Apps 100%, but that doesn't mean that I'm giving those decision makers a free pass...
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Re: Discussion with App alums

Unread post by appvette » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:03 pm

vegattk wrote: I'll still be behind my Apps 100%
Your signature pictures prove otherwise.

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Re: Discussion with App alums

Unread post by appsfan » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:07 pm

As a non-App grad (UNCG grad) who married and fathered into the App family, I have found my App friends fall into two camps. The first camp, which is somewhat engaged with ASU athletics, generally support the move. The second camp, those who don't follow ASU sports closely, are indifferent to the move. They basically ask what I think about it (I support it) and they accept that and go on... For the record, I have been a season ticket holder & YC member for several years, and identify myself as an Appalachian fan. FWIW, as much as some complain/are concerned about the YC fund raising efforts, the YC is light years ahead of the Spartan Club in its efforts.

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Re: Discussion with App alums

Unread post by goapps93 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:16 pm

I'm still having a hard time understanding why some Yosef Club members think their DONATION to provide scholarships to student athletes should come with full access to the athletic department and a sayso in the decisions of people who are hired by the University or the UNC Board of Governors to make decisions in the best interest of the University. Yosef members and season tickets purchasers are not purchasing stock per se and thus are not really "shareholders." I also don't understand why a person who decides to DONATE to scholarship funds and/or purchase season tickets would discontinue that decision because a decision was made to seek an invite to a higher level football division/conference. App State football is App State football regardless of the league we play in. Sure, I imagine ticket prices may rise over the next several years but I don't see them increasing more than our fan base can keep up with. Our prices are already commensurate with our, soon to be, Sun Belt peers. And how many people really go to road games anyway. I know many on here do but how many times have we talked about how many fans cannot afford to go to home and away games. Some of you will now be able to save some money which will more than make up for any increase in ticket prices and purchase, what I know we all hope, will be an improved GoASUtv package or watch on one of the ESPN networks. This is all going to work out and I think the University and we, as fans, are going to be much better off in the long run.
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Re: Discussion with App alums

Unread post by mfrench » Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:41 pm

I am an 82 grad and a YC member since that time. Was fortunate to participate on Conrad Stadium turf for four years. I reside in SC and will miss the team visits to Furman, Woffird and Citadel that are sure to dwindle. There are many pros and cons to the move to FCS and Sunbelt. Whats done is done. There will be growing pains. Lets support the school and teams as we always have. The divison betweeen FCS and FBS will continue to widen and we are more than well positioned to benefit from this timing and opportunity. I feel the best is yet to come. Press on!

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Re: Discussion with App alums

Unread post by vegattk » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:10 pm

appvette wrote:
vegattk wrote: I'll still be behind my Apps 100%
Your signature pictures prove otherwise.
One can still be behind their team and not like the conference or decisions they are making... 100% App fans does not mean 100% Sun Belt fan.
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Re: Discussion with App alums

Unread post by vegattk » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:12 pm

goapps93 wrote:I'm still having a hard time understanding why some Yosef Club members think their DONATION to provide scholarships to student athletes should come with full access to the athletic department and a sayso in the decisions of people who are hired by the University or the UNC Board of Governors to make decisions in the best interest of the University. Yosef members and season tickets purchasers are not purchasing stock per se and thus are not really "shareholders." I also don't understand why a person who decides to DONATE to scholarship funds and/or purchase season tickets would discontinue that decision because a decision was made to seek an invite to a higher level football division/conference. App State football is App State football regardless of the league we play in. Sure, I imagine ticket prices may rise over the next several years but I don't see them increasing more than our fan base can keep up with. Our prices are already commensurate with our, soon to be, Sun Belt peers. And how many people really go to road games anyway. I know many on here do but how many times have we talked about how many fans cannot afford to go to home and away games. Some of you will now be able to save some money which will more than make up for any increase in ticket prices and purchase, what I know we all hope, will be an improved GoASUtv package or watch on one of the ESPN networks. This is all going to work out and I think the University and we, as fans, are going to be much better off in the long run.
Woo hoo! I can now see less App games in person! :roll:

Dumbest argument ever.
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Re: Discussion with App alums

Unread post by vegattk » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:16 pm

goapps93 wrote:I'm still having a hard time understanding why some Yosef Club members think their DONATION to provide scholarships to student athletes should come with full access to the athletic department and a sayso in the decisions of people who are hired by the University or the UNC Board of Governors to make decisions in the best interest of the University. Yosef members and season tickets purchasers are not purchasing stock per se and thus are not really "shareholders." I also don't understand why a person who decides to DONATE to scholarship funds and/or purchase season tickets would discontinue that decision because a decision was made to seek an invite to a higher level football division/conference. App State football is App State football regardless of the league we play in. Sure, I imagine ticket prices may rise over the next several years but I don't see them increasing more than our fan base can keep up with. Our prices are already commensurate with our, soon to be, Sun Belt peers. And how many people really go to road games anyway. I know many on here do but how many times have we talked about how many fans cannot afford to go to home and away games. Some of you will now be able to save some money which will more than make up for any increase in ticket prices and purchase, what I know we all hope, will be an improved GoASUtv package or watch on one of the ESPN networks. This is all going to work out and I think the University and we, as fans, are going to be much better off in the long run.

Hmmmmm.... A cheap online survey to gauge the feelings of your constituents, of whom you've already got contact information, to make them feel included in the process even if you completely ignore the poll results..

Seems like a pretty good idea to me. Wonder why it was never done?
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Re: Discussion with App alums

Unread post by GoAppsGo92 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:19 pm

AppGrad78 wrote:
GoAppsGo92 wrote:
rbarthle17 wrote:
Saint3333 wrote:Has anyone run into an App alum that asked you your thoughts on the Sun Belt move.
In talking to about a dozen of my ASU friends (none of whom are message board participants), they were all 100% against this move. Now not all of them are sports fans, but they all thought this was a bad move for ASU, that it will cost too much and there are no gains to be had.

I think this is a lot more common a sentiment than some people here want to believe. I thought this before, but had no desire to fight with the 1-A or Bust crowd on it, but I believe the combined total of people that don't like the move and those who literally don't care one way or another far outstrips those excited by the move. The vocal minority won out in this case.
I knew there would be some way for folks to try to continue the debate that is long, long, long resolved. The move now is to come up with idle conversation and pass it off as survey data. Well folks, surveys were part of the athletic committee's work and found majority of alumni and students in favor of the move to FBS.
Source?
d. ASU Family Subcommittee
Without question, the subcommittee identified the positive energy and interest observed
through the various focus groups and study presentations as a strong positive. From these
meetings, the subcommittee made several important discoveries. First, even with the current
uncertain economic climate in North Carolina, there is no ‘lightning rod’ opposition or issue
against repositioning. Secondly, on campus, a majority of less-tenured faculty like potential
alignments based on the respective Carnegie classification. This is an important observation
because half of Appalachian’s tenured faculty members are within five years of retirement
eligibility and the changing face of our faculty population complements the timing of this
study. As it relates to student fees, the majority of what the subcommittee identified as
engaged students like the thought of investing to help Appalachian compete in a bigger
arena, especially given the strong directive from the Committee that Appalachian’s growth
will not come primarily from student fee revenues. Third, ‘off the mountain,’ the question
presented by most people is not ‘if Appalachian will reposition?,’ but rather ‘when?’ and Executive Summary of the Athletics Feasibility Committee
September 23, 2011
7
1APPALACHIAN
‘where?.’ Again, with the average age of the 100,000 living Appalachian alumni being 32,
the subcommittee feels that this is an important fact identifying future support forthe
University and athletics.

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Re: Discussion with App alums

Unread post by vegattk » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:24 pm

GoAppsGo92 wrote:
AppGrad78 wrote:
GoAppsGo92 wrote:
rbarthle17 wrote:
Saint3333 wrote:Has anyone run into an App alum that asked you your thoughts on the Sun Belt move.
In talking to about a dozen of my ASU friends (none of whom are message board participants), they were all 100% against this move. Now not all of them are sports fans, but they all thought this was a bad move for ASU, that it will cost too much and there are no gains to be had.

I think this is a lot more common a sentiment than some people here want to believe. I thought this before, but had no desire to fight with the 1-A or Bust crowd on it, but I believe the combined total of people that don't like the move and those who literally don't care one way or another far outstrips those excited by the move. The vocal minority won out in this case.
I knew there would be some way for folks to try to continue the debate that is long, long, long resolved. The move now is to come up with idle conversation and pass it off as survey data. Well folks, surveys were part of the athletic committee's work and found majority of alumni and students in favor of the move to FBS.
Source?
d. ASU Family Subcommittee
Without question, the subcommittee identified the positive energy and interest observed
through the various focus groups and study presentations as a strong positive. From these
meetings, the subcommittee made several important discoveries. First, even with the current
uncertain economic climate in North Carolina, there is no ‘lightning rod’ opposition or issue
against repositioning. Secondly, on campus, a majority of less-tenured faculty like potential
alignments based on the respective Carnegie classification. This is an important observation
because half of Appalachian’s tenured faculty members are within five years of retirement
eligibility and the changing face of our faculty population complements the timing of this
study. As it relates to student fees, the majority of what the subcommittee identified as
engaged students
like the thought of investing to help Appalachian compete in a bigger
arena, especially given the strong directive from the Committee that Appalachian’s growth
will not come primarily from student fee revenues. Third, ‘off the mountain,’ the question
presented by most people is not ‘if Appalachian will reposition?,’ but rather ‘when?’ and Executive Summary of the Athletics Feasibility Committee
September 23, 2011
7
1APPALACHIAN
‘where?.’ Again, with the average age of the 100,000 living Appalachian alumni being 32,
the subcommittee feels that this is an important fact identifying future support forthe
University and athletics.
No where in that does it say how the samples were chosen. When you chose the population you want to chose its not a good sample.. Any researcher can tell you that.

Also, what about tenured faculty? Does it matter what they say? Or do they not even count in the equation?
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Re: Discussion with App alums

Unread post by AppGrad78 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:48 pm

A hand-picked subcommittee drawing data from a hand-picked focus group is not what any statistician worth his salt would call a reliable survey.

You guys in the FBS-or-bust camp should be better than this. You got what you wanted. Celebrate. Just don't try to make this out to be a popular mandate. When Charlie Cobb and G.A. Sywassink opted to forgo that part of the process, they eliminated any chance of us knowing for sure.

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Re: Discussion with App alums

Unread post by BeauFoster » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:49 am

vegattk wrote: Woo hoo! I can now see less App games in person! :roll:

Dumbest argument ever.
And yours is the most selfish argument ever! Lets say my daughter is offered a promotion to a job in London, making more money than she does now, for a well-respected company. She's wanted the opportunity since the day she could read. It will most likely lead to bigger and better things. I'd be the worst father in the world to selfishly say "You can't go - I have to have you close by so that I can see you whenever I choose."

That's your argument. And it's total crap.
Give 'em hell!

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