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It is often a depth issue for us. We are very deep on the distance races with our strong XC program. We don't have a lot of depth in the field events and some non distance running events. Hopefully, our new track will help with recruiting.MrCraig wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 6:29 amI know exceedingly little about collegiate track and field. Obviously, I want App to win first place in everything. Looking at the final standings, I'm happy to see App finished ahead of all the teams we consider rivals on the men's side, and Marshall was the only rival ahead of App on the women's side. Just one more thing we can hang over GA Southern and JMU.
How does our track stack up against the rest of the Sun Belt? I would like to assume since it's new that it is top of the line.hapapp wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 10:52 amIt is often a depth issue for us. We are very deep on the distance races with our strong XC program. We don't have a lot of depth in the field events and some non distance running events. Hopefully, our new track will help with recruiting.MrCraig wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 6:29 amI know exceedingly little about collegiate track and field. Obviously, I want App to win first place in everything. Looking at the final standings, I'm happy to see App finished ahead of all the teams we consider rivals on the men's side, and Marshall was the only rival ahead of App on the women's side. Just one more thing we can hang over GA Southern and JMU.
I think he’s referring to the facility.NewApp wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 5:30 pmMen's Team Standings
1.South Alabama – 143 points
2. Texas State – 118 points
3. Louisiana – 99 points
4. App State – 98 points
5. Arkansas State – 90 points
6. Southern Miss – 86 points
7. Coastal Carolina – 74 points
8. ULM – 59 points
9. Troy – 41 points
10. Marshall – 10 points
Women's Team Standings
1. Texas State – 120.2 points
2. Louisiana – 115.7 points
3. Arkansas State – 92 points
4. Southern Miss – 90.2 points
5. Marshall – 71.2 points
6. App State – 53.2 points
7. Georgia Southern – 48 points
8. ULM – 46 points
9. Georgia State – 44 points
10. Coastal Carolina – 43 points
11. James Madison – 30 points
12. South Alabama – 35.5 points
13. Troy – 19 points
I did some quick internet sleuthing, and what's above appears to be correct. Some schools, including both Georgia schools, don't have a men's track team, but they do have a women's track team. I wonder why that is. Title IX? Lack of participation? Budgets?
I'd bet it's Title IX.
Wasn't replying to anyone in particular.. Just posting the results in text form w/o the link.hapapp wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 6:39 pmI think he’s referring to the facility.NewApp wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 5:30 pmMen's Team Standings
1.South Alabama – 143 points
2. Texas State – 118 points
3. Louisiana – 99 points
4. App State – 98 points
5. Arkansas State – 90 points
6. Southern Miss – 86 points
7. Coastal Carolina – 74 points
8. ULM – 59 points
9. Troy – 41 points
10. Marshall – 10 points
Women's Team Standings
1. Texas State – 120.2 points
2. Louisiana – 115.7 points
3. Arkansas State – 92 points
4. Southern Miss – 90.2 points
5. Marshall – 71.2 points
6. App State – 53.2 points
7. Georgia Southern – 48 points
8. ULM – 46 points
9. Georgia State – 44 points
10. Coastal Carolina – 43 points
11. James Madison – 30 points
12. South Alabama – 35.5 points
13. Troy – 19 points
I'm far from an expert on this, but what men's sport would those schools have that would require a women's track team as counterpart? I guess maybe they have a men's soccer team but not a women's, so they have women's track but no men's track? I'm curious, but not curious enough to research lol.hapapp wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 11:04 amI'd bet it's Title IX.
I don't think its one for one necessarily. Keep in mind it requires a number of women's sports to equate one football team of 85 scholarships.MrCraig wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 6:19 amI'm far from an expert on this, but what men's sport would those schools have that would require a women's track team as counterpart? I guess maybe they have a men's soccer team but not a women's, so they have women's track but no men's track? I'm curious, but not curious enough to research lol.hapapp wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 11:04 amI'd bet it's Title IX.
GaSo and GaSt both have Men's Tennis and Men's Soccer vs. our Wrestling and Men's Cross Country (I assume some of our Cross Country scholarships are also part of the Men's Track Team)hapapp wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 12:46 pmI don't think its one for one necessarily. Keep in mind it requires a number of women's sports to equate one football team of 85 scholarships.MrCraig wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 6:19 amI'm far from an expert on this, but what men's sport would those schools have that would require a women's track team as counterpart? I guess maybe they have a men's soccer team but not a women's, so they have women's track but no men's track? I'm curious, but not curious enough to research lol.hapapp wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 11:04 amI'd bet it's Title IX.
JMU's decision was due to proportionality and an evaluation of just too many sports in general. Occurred in 2006/2007, well before FBS rumbles.WASU 93 wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 10:35 pmGaSo and GaSt both have Men's Tennis and Men's Soccer vs. our Wrestling and Men's Cross Country (I assume some of our Cross Country scholarships are also part of the Men's Track Team)hapapp wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 12:46 pmI don't think its one for one necessarily. Keep in mind it requires a number of women's sports to equate one football team of 85 scholarships.MrCraig wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 6:19 amI'm far from an expert on this, but what men's sport would those schools have that would require a women's track team as counterpart? I guess maybe they have a men's soccer team but not a women's, so they have women's track but no men's track? I'm curious, but not curious enough to research lol.
GaSo offers Women's Swimming and Diving and Women's Rifle (vs. our Field Hockey)
GaSt offers Beach Volleyball instead of Field Hockey
JMU offers 6 Men's Sports (including Soccer/sans Wrestling) and 11 Women's Sports including Field Hockey, Lacrosse and Diving/Swimming. Most likely they dropped Men's Track when they had moved up to 85 scholarships in FBS.
In the SEC, Vanderbilt (which only offer 6 men's sports) does not have a Men's Track Team. But, they do have a Women's
Track Team (and also offer Women's Lacrosse and Bowling as part of their 10 teams)
The AAC has 10 men's teams and 14 women's teams (SMU, UAB, Florida Atlantic and Temple do not field men's teams)
There's always going to be an offset of additional women's teams to overcome the 85 scholarships of Football.
Title IX would require even more Women's Teams/Scholarships if Baseball was allowed to have more than 11.7 scholarships per team:
There will be a 40-man limit on roster size for Division I programs during the 2024 baseball season.
For 2024:
Up to 32 student-athletes will be allowed to receive a baseball scholarship – an increase from the normal limit of 27 in Division I.
The additional “counters” (scholarship athletes counting against the team scholarship limit) must be included in the maximum team limit of 11.7 scholarships and must be provided the minimum scholarship value of 25%.
This may explain one reason that UNC-G does not have football because of an enrollment of almost 70% women. https://ire.uncg.edu/facts/campus_profi ... Census.pdfhapapp wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 12:46 pmI don't think its one for one necessarily. Keep in mind it requires a number of women's sports to equate one football team of 85 scholarships.MrCraig wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 6:19 amI'm far from an expert on this, but what men's sport would those schools have that would require a women's track team as counterpart? I guess maybe they have a men's soccer team but not a women's, so they have women's track but no men's track? I'm curious, but not curious enough to research lol.hapapp wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 11:04 amI'd bet it's Title IX.
Ah, that makes sense. I was thinking high school, where it's basically funding just by sport. I hadn't considered that at the college level the funding is based more on scholarships. Thanks!hapapp wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 12:46 pmI don't think its one for one necessarily. Keep in mind it requires a number of women's sports to equate one football team of 85 scholarships.MrCraig wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 6:19 amI'm far from an expert on this, but what men's sport would those schools have that would require a women's track team as counterpart? I guess maybe they have a men's soccer team but not a women's, so they have women's track but no men's track? I'm curious, but not curious enough to research lol.hapapp wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 11:04 amI'd bet it's Title IX.
Theoretically, I wonder if you will see any teams push the 85 scholarship limit or Title IX by offering NIL deals instead of scholarships and just have the "student/athletes" just pay their own tuition out of their NIL earnings. It could also change the face of the baseball scholarship limit.MrCraig wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 6:20 amAh, that makes sense. I was thinking high school, where it's basically funding just by sport. I hadn't considered that at the college level the funding is based more on scholarships. Thanks!hapapp wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 12:46 pmI don't think its one for one necessarily. Keep in mind it requires a number of women's sports to equate one football team of 85 scholarships.MrCraig wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 6:19 amI'm far from an expert on this, but what men's sport would those schools have that would require a women's track team as counterpart? I guess maybe they have a men's soccer team but not a women's, so they have women's track but no men's track? I'm curious, but not curious enough to research lol.
Already been done. A company in Utah gave all of the BYU walk-ons an NIL deal for the equivalent of the cost to attend. I believe there were 37 of them, so BYU essentially had 122 scholarship football players last year.WASU 93 wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 6:57 pmTheoretically, I wonder if you will see any teams push the 85 scholarship limit or Title IX by offering NIL deals instead of scholarships and just have the "student/athletes" just pay their own tuition out of their NIL earnings. It could also change the face of the baseball scholarship limit.MrCraig wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 6:20 amAh, that makes sense. I was thinking high school, where it's basically funding just by sport. I hadn't considered that at the college level the funding is based more on scholarships. Thanks!hapapp wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 12:46 pmI don't think its one for one necessarily. Keep in mind it requires a number of women's sports to equate one football team of 85 scholarships.MrCraig wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2024 6:19 amI'm far from an expert on this, but what men's sport would those schools have that would require a women's track team as counterpart? I guess maybe they have a men's soccer team but not a women's, so they have women's track but no men's track? I'm curious, but not curious enough to research lol.