The Carolina Way!

[ASUMountaineer]

Me thinks Appgrad1 is having a good time.

Ehh, maybe so. But, if he's not...his love of baby blue runs deep.

[DaphneUrquhart]

My daughter just graduated from UNC - Major in Chemistry - Biochem track and minor in Biology. I asked her why she never found any of those classes that you don't have to attend. Don't hate on us for her going to UNC, my son is in Grad School at App and my wife and I both graduated from App.

I never found any of those courses when I was there either. I even had basketball players in classes with me ... yes, they showed up. Of course, that was eons ago when Dean Smith was coaching and Roy Williams was an assistant coach and most of the dorms were not air conditioned.

Folks, I do believe it's time to put this puppy to bed. Carolina's athletic department has messed up big time. Whether anything ever comes of that in the way of NCAA penalties is really irrelevant. I would be willing to bet that more people know the Rashad McCants story than know that we'll be sitting out post-season basketball next season. A one season turn around opportunity for our basketball program is a blessing compared to the McCants debacle.

There will always be sons and daughters of Carolina alumni who won't get into Carolina just as there are now sons and daughters of Appalachian alumni who can't get into Appalachian. You'll find hurt feelings and superiority complexes all over the place. How many of you who are App grads would find anything good to say about Western? (ok, me neither )

At the same time you want to act all angry because someone who graduated from Carolina looks at App as something less than we know it to be. It makes more sense to me to spend the energy and effort of letting folks know all the great things happening at App. Be sure while you're doing that to remember the names of some of the App players who made stupid decisions either in or out of the classroom and don't let yourself get too high and mighty. Humble pie is never very tasty.

[appbio91]

"He is not a reliable source to base things that Roy knew all this."

If he knew it, he's dirty.
If he didn't know it, he's incompetent.

He knew. Just like he knew the game wasn't over when he walked off and left his walk ons to fend for themselves at FSU a couple years ago. He is scum.

[8993]

WE are not Tarheels. WE are Mountaineers, through and through.

AppGrad is a just Tarheel that graduated from App State.

[AppGrad1]

I think I may have attended APP during the same time as AppGrad1? He was the student that always wore the UNC gear everywhere.

Sorry guys.....cant make it to varsity gym tonight, UNC is playing Campbell on ESPN.

Yeah.

Sorry. Can't go to the App game. We're playing State tonight at the Dean Dome.

You may have missed my post about ASU being my #1 school.

[AppGrad1]

I'm still waiting on links from different posters saying I defended unc from their actions and where I supposedly said a professor had an ax to grind.

Waiting,
Waiting,
Waiting,
...

You say McCants isn't a reliable source, but what about his official transcript from UNC-CH? He was failing most of his real classes then suddenly he takes the A-A classes and makes Dean's List. There are reports showing a number of other basketball players took the same classes, and not a single one of them made less than a B. Some of them dropped other majors because they actually had to go to class. The basketball staff and tutors knew these players couldn't last in real classes so they put them in this program. You may be ok with whatever punishment the NCAA gives, but that's only because there is no way to defend the program. Being ok with them not getting punished shows your true baby blue colors. If App was caught doing this I'd want everyone involved removed from the school and all of their records thrown out. Everyone with ties to UNC-CH should demand answers from Roy and Co.

It is my understanding the A classes you are talking about came in the semester that he announced he was going pro and it was not going to matter what he made anyway. That's what I've heard.

I agree that I'd they find evidence they should be punished but there is literally no one that says he's reliable at all.

How about the line of former tar heels saying this. We are now at 1porfessor and at least 4 athletes. Are they all not reliable. I bet you would find them pretty damn reliable sources in Raleigh or Durham, but why not Chapel Hill? Oh yeah the Carolina blue glass wont let the light in.

How do you know my thoughts?

[AppGrad1]

I'm still waiting on links from different posters saying I defended unc from their actions and where I supposedly said a professor had an ax to grind.

Waiting,
Waiting,
Waiting,
...

You say McCants isn't a reliable source, but what about his official transcript from UNC-CH? He was failing most of his real classes then suddenly he takes the A-A classes and makes Dean's List. There are reports showing a number of other basketball players took the same classes, and not a single one of them made less than a B. Some of them dropped other majors because they actually had to go to class. The basketball staff and tutors knew these players couldn't last in real classes so they put them in this program. You may be ok with whatever punishment the NCAA gives, but that's only because there is no way to defend the program. Being ok with them not getting punished shows your true baby blue colors. If App was caught doing this I'd want everyone involved removed from the school and all of their records thrown out. Everyone with ties to UNC-CH should demand answers from Roy and Co.

It is my understanding the A classes you are talking about came in the semester that he announced he was going pro and it was not going to matter what he made anyway. That's what I've heard.

I agree that I'd they find evidence they should be punished but there is literally no one that says he's reliable at all.

How does that matter?

It doesn't matter in the overall. It only matters if people think he got the A's just to remain eligible for basketball.

[AppGrad1]

Did I state "A Professor had an ax to grind?"
If I did I have no idea why I would say such a thing?
Please link where I said that and I will stand corrected....

PS. If you go back and look at past post you will easily see that I've said if UNC did what is being said I have no problems with what the NCAA does. How many times do I have to repeat this?
I've NOT defended them.
Maybe what Mccants said was true but there is NO one on this universe that won't say he is a nut job. He is not a reliable source to base things that Roy knew all this. All the previous players stated the opposite of what he said.
This is not "defending" UNC. It is saying give me a more reliable source before I'll believe it really happened. Not the fake classes but about Roy knowing all this happened...

<cough> <cough> Jose Canseco <cough>

Huh?

Seemed quite obvious, but here goes...

You refuse to believe McCants because he is not "reliable." Jose Canseco had MAJOR credibility issues, and at the time he made his allegations (and wrote a book), was considered "not reliable." However, his allegations not only proved to be true, but the tip of the iceberg.

A-Roid denied he used PED's.
Palmero denied he used PED's.
McGuire denied he used PED's.

All three were proven liars, and Canseco was vindicated. The point of my post is to quit looking to discredit McCants and focus on the allegations. Personally, I think his allegations are more reliable than the sham "investigation" UNC likes to trumpet.

I don't think anyone is questioning about the African American classes.
It's the part he says Roy knew that I question. Maybe Roy knew. I have no clue. I just don't rely on Mccants story. He once said (to the media) that they MADE him go to classes and it made him feel like he was in prison. Now he states he didn't go to classes. The two doesn't add up

[AppGrad1]

I'm still waiting on links from different posters saying I defended unc from their actions and where I supposedly said a professor had an ax to grind.

Waiting,
Waiting,
Waiting,
...

You say McCants isn't a reliable source, but what about his official transcript from UNC-CH? He was failing most of his real classes then suddenly he takes the A-A classes and makes Dean's List. There are reports showing a number of other basketball players took the same classes, and not a single one of them made less than a B. Some of them dropped other majors because they actually had to go to class. The basketball staff and tutors knew these players couldn't last in real classes so they put them in this program. You may be ok with whatever punishment the NCAA gives, but that's only because there is no way to defend the program. Being ok with them not getting punished shows your true baby blue colors. If App was caught doing this I'd want everyone involved removed from the school and all of their records thrown out. Everyone with ties to UNC-CH should demand answers from Roy and Co.

It is my understanding the A classes you are talking about came in the semester that he announced he was going pro and it was not going to matter what he made anyway. That's what I've heard.

I agree that I'd they find evidence they should be punished but there is literally no one that says he's reliable at all.

I've stayed out of this discussion but this last statement is beyond the pale. I'm sorry AppGrad1 but the bolded statement is one of the dumbest things I've seen yet. The fact that he made the Dean's List is not in question. All you have to do is go to:

http://registrar.unc.edu/reports/deans- ... ient-list/

You can click on the link for Dean's List-Fall 2001-Spring 2010 and there it is. But you say that because he was going pro it was not going to matter what he made anyway? How does that matter? Are you saying that because he was leaving it was ok for bogus grades to be given? I'll bet the students that legitimately made the list would beg to differ.

So I have a simple yes or no question for you. It doesn't require the first draft of the Magna Carta to answer. Again, simple yes or no. Do you believe that the grades that McCants received that allowed him to make the Dean's List were legitimate?

I have no clue.
Only he can answer that question.

[AppGrad1]

WE are not Tarheels. WE are Mountaineers, through and through.

AppGrad is a just Tarheel that graduated from App State.

Maybe you missed my post saying that ASU was my #1 school but I bet it made you feel good saying that...

[AppinVA]

I think I may have attended APP during the same time as AppGrad1? He was the student that always wore the UNC gear everywhere.

Sorry guys.....cant make it to varsity gym tonight, UNC is playing Campbell on ESPN.

Yeah.

Sorry. Can't go to the App game. We're playing State tonight at the Dean Dome.

You may have missed my post about ASU being my #1 school.

You know, we aren't that different. UNC-CHeat is our No. 2 school as well.

A big, steaming pile of No. 2.

[AppSt94]

"These guys say


The same superiority/inferiority complex is played out is every state in the country. UCF and USF get the shaft from FSU ans FU. Western Kentucky is miles behind UK in resources and reputation. If you went to ETSU, you would complain about UT. It's all releveant to the state that your alma mater is in. Deal with it.

I really don't think most mid-major state schools get the shaft from their flagship with the severity and frequency that we do in North Carolina. And I'm dead sure no other flag ship schools, or any schools at all for that matter, are responsible for any scandals as ongoing and egregious as what goes on at UNC.

Being overshadowed in the media and disproportionate tax $ distribution are one thing. The active oppression UNC System members endure at the hands of our slave masters is unparalleled IMO. Granted, I haven't spent years following such matters in other states.

Do you have any empirical data to support your statement or is this your opinion? As I stated in my post, it is all relative to the state you went to school. I agree that the activities at the flagship university for NC are deplorable, but your argument is weak simply because you hate Carolina and have said as much long before the mention of academic fraud in Chapel Hill warmed the cockles of your heart. While you may have a point about other mid major schools from other states don't get the shaft. Answer me this. How many other states have 17 public institutions of higher learning that have to suckle from the teat of their local bureaucracy? it is a numbers game plain and simple. Despite out POTUS efforts of equality, we all do not, nor should we expect to play on a level playing field.

[ASUMountaineer]

My daughter just graduated from UNC - Major in Chemistry - Biochem track and minor in Biology. I asked her why she never found any of those classes that you don't have to attend. Don't hate on us for her going to UNC, my son is in Grad School at App and my wife and I both graduated from App.

I never found any of those courses when I was there either. I even had basketball players in classes with me ... yes, they showed up. Of course, that was eons ago when Dean Smith was coaching and Roy Williams was an assistant coach and most of the dorms were not air conditioned.

Folks, I do believe it's time to put this puppy to bed. Carolina's athletic department has messed up big time. Whether anything ever comes of that in the way of NCAA penalties is really irrelevant. I would be willing to bet that more people know the Rashad McCants story than know that we'll be sitting out post-season basketball next season. A one season turn around opportunity for our basketball program is a blessing compared to the McCants debacle.

There will always be sons and daughters of Carolina alumni who won't get into Carolina just as there are now sons and daughters of Appalachian alumni who can't get into Appalachian. You'll find hurt feelings and superiority complexes all over the place. How many of you who are App grads would find anything good to say about Western? (ok, me neither )

At the same time you want to act all angry because someone who graduated from Carolina looks at App as something less than we know it to be. It makes more sense to me to spend the energy and effort of letting folks know all the great things happening at App. Be sure while you're doing that to remember the names of some of the App players who made stupid decisions either in or out of the classroom and don't let yourself get too high and mighty. Humble pie is never very tasty.

The arrogance of some UNC grads is irrelevant to me. I'm more concerned with the control UNC-CH has over the UNC BOG, which has negative consequences for App State.

[ASUMountaineer]

Did I state "A Professor had an ax to grind?"
If I did I have no idea why I would say such a thing?
Please link where I said that and I will stand corrected....

PS. If you go back and look at past post you will easily see that I've said if UNC did what is being said I have no problems with what the NCAA does. How many times do I have to repeat this?
I've NOT defended them.
Maybe what Mccants said was true but there is NO one on this universe that won't say he is a nut job. He is not a reliable source to base things that Roy knew all this. All the previous players stated the opposite of what he said.
This is not "defending" UNC. It is saying give me a more reliable source before I'll believe it really happened. Not the fake classes but about Roy knowing all this happened...

<cough> <cough> Jose Canseco <cough>

Huh?

Seemed quite obvious, but here goes...

You refuse to believe McCants because he is not "reliable." Jose Canseco had MAJOR credibility issues, and at the time he made his allegations (and wrote a book), was considered "not reliable." However, his allegations not only proved to be true, but the tip of the iceberg.

A-Roid denied he used PED's.
Palmero denied he used PED's.
McGuire denied he used PED's.

All three were proven liars, and Canseco was vindicated. The point of my post is to quit looking to discredit McCants and focus on the allegations. Personally, I think his allegations are more reliable than the sham "investigation" UNC likes to trumpet.

I don't think anyone is questioning about the African American classes.
It's the part he says Roy knew that I question. Maybe Roy knew. I have no clue. I just don't rely on Mccants story. He once said (to the media) that they MADE him go to classes and it made him feel like he was in prison. Now he states he didn't go to classes. The two doesn't add up

That's fine. Just don't be surprised if he's proven to not be a liar in this case. Jose Canseco had worse credibility issues than McCants and he wasn't lying. Attacking the messenger is fine, but sometimes the message is much more formidable.

[Appsolutley]

"The two doesn't add up."

I'm no grammar Nazi, but good lord...

[Gonzo]

"Do you have any empirical data to support your statement or is this your opinion? As I stated in my post, it is all relative to the state you went to school. I agree that the activities at the flagship university for NC are deplorable, but your argument is weak simply because you hate Carolina and have said as much long before the mention of academic fraud in Chapel Hill warmed the cockles of your heart. While you may have a point about other mid major schools from other states don't get the shaft. Answer me this. How many other states have 17 public institutions of higher learning that have to suckle from the teat of their local bureaucracy? it is a numbers game plain and simple. Despite out POTUS efforts of equality, we all do not, nor should we expect to play on a level playing field"


Well keep in mind that I don't claim UNC has a strangle hold on the policies and $ of the UNC System because I hate Carolina. I hate Carolina because they have a strangle hold on the policy and $ of the UNC System.

I think it would be impossible to quantify something like corruption and favoritism in this context, so no I don't have any empirical data. I do however know enough about the system that I would be VERY surprised if there were many more mid major state schools that were forced to cannibalize programs and lay off teachers for lack of funding while their flag ship was spending the same funding on PR campaigns trying to make the public forget all about the biggest example of academic fraud in NCAA history. There might be some comparable examples, but I've never heard of any.

[Saint3333]

Go look at the budget cuts across the 16 NC Universities the last few years that will provide all the evidence you need.

[NewApp]

I think I may have attended APP during the same time as AppGrad1? He was the student that always wore the UNC gear everywhere.

Sorry guys.....cant make it to varsity gym tonight, UNC is playing Campbell on ESPN.

Yeah.

Sorry. Can't go to the App game. We're playing State tonight at the Dean Dome.

You may have missed my post about ASU being my #1 school.

You should have learned long before now that when you go against the grain that the sh!t never stops.

[Gonzo]

Go look at the budget cuts across the 16 NC Universities the last few years that will provide all the evidence you need.

http://www.northcarolina.edu/sites/defa ... 013-15.pdf

Hey that was easy

[WVAPPeer]

The latest from McCants ---

Former North Carolina basketball star Rashad McCants shot back at Tar Heels head coach Roy Williams on Wednesday and answered criticism about his allegations of academic fraud while a member of the 2004-05 national championship team.

"Outside the Lines" reported last week that McCants said his tutors wrote his term papers, he rarely went to class for about half his time at UNC and he remained able to play largely because he took bogus classes designed to keep athletes academically eligible.

On Saturday, Williams told ESPN that he was in "shock" and "disbelief" over the McCants allegations, saying the experiences McCants shared did not match what he knows about his players' academic efforts and records and the basketball program he oversees. Several former players who attended the Williams interview but did not wish to speak on camera echoed Williams' points and vehemently disagreed with McCants' allegations and descriptions of being an athlete at UNC.

But McCants, in an appearance Wednesday on "Outside the Lines," stood by his allegations and called on all former players from 2004-05 to release their academic transcripts, which would show whether they, too, took bogus African-American studies classes: "If you want to find the truth, the truth is there in the transcripts," McCants said.

A copy of McCants' university transcript, labeled "unofficial" and obtained by "Outside the Lines," shows that in his non-African-American studies classes, McCants received six C's, one D and three F's. In his African-American studies classes -- many of which are referred to as "paper classes" because students did not have to attend them -- his grades were 10 A's, six B's, one C and one D.

McCants also said Wednesday that Williams' denial and distancing from what he knew about his players' academic performances and standing didn't ring true.

"How are you getting paid millions of dollars to be a coach?" McCants said. "How is that you're not accountable for what your athletes do off the floor?"

On Wednesday, McCants also stood behind an allegation he made directly about Williams: That, when he was possibly headed toward ineligibility during the 2004-05 national championship season due to grades, Williams told him in a meeting that a summer session could be swapped out with a failed class to improve his GPA.

Williams adamantly denied Saturday that he ever discussed swapping any classes with McCants; further, he said he did not recall such a meeting "at all."

But on Wednesday, McCants said: "Maybe he's getting a little old. You know, that's something that I can't ... I don't have any control over what he remembers. All I know is the truth. And I'm not up here to lie about anything."

Williams did say that if a player were having academic trouble, he probably would talk with the player: "That's part of my job." But he repeatedly said he and his staff have drawn lines they don't cross when it comes to players' academics.

"We have a very defined system here at the University of North Carolina," he said. "I have somewhat control over the basketball program. I don't have control over the academic side. But the academic side and our athletic director and our president want me to emphasize that academic side every single day, and they want our players to understand that. ...

"They want us to be concerned and to emphasize it but they don't want us to step over to the academic side. They don't want that to happen."

ESPN basketball analyst Jalen Rose, who joined McCants on Wednesday as a guest on "Outside the Lines," also questioned Williams' stated knowledge of his athletes' academics.

"I respect Roy Williams. He's a champion. He's a Hall of Famer," said Rose. "But it almost is a slap in the face to the entire system, to NCAA basketball, to major collegiate sports, that he does not know what classes his kids are: a) taking, and b) the results of those classes, and c) even talked to the students about the update of those classes.

"And I know he's not deaf, dumb or blind, but when you say that in an interview, it's going to make a lot of people think that you may think that we are."

The Raleigh (N.C.) News & Observer reported Saturday evening that McCants was not the only member of the 2005 team who relied on the bogus classes. The newspaper said that data it had obtained shows that "five members of that team, including at least four key players, accounted for a combined 39 enrollments in classes that have been identified as confirmed or suspected lecture classes that never met." No player earned less than a B in any of the enrollments, according to the report.

McCants' allegations mirror and amplify many of those first made public in 2011, when the Raleigh (N.C.) News & Observer began to report about widespread academic fraud at UNC. The scandal has centered on the African-American studies classes many athletes took in order to remain eligible.

A UNC internal investigation found that 54 classes in the department of African and African-American studies were either "aberrant" or "irregularly" taught from summer 2007 to summer 2011. That investigation went back to only 2007.

UNC has commissioned another investigation, which is ongoing. That investigator released a statement Friday after the McCants allegations were public and said he hoped to speak with McCants.

McCants didn't directly answer a question Wednesday about whether he would cooperate in the UNC-funded investigation. "I think [the investigator] should discuss [their academic experiences] with the 16 guys who said they had excellent experiences