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Jason Capel... should he stay or should he go?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:56 am
by 8993
Is it time for Jason Capel to go, or should we give him another shot? I understand that this is only his second year, but he has yet to produce a consistent team that can get wins. If we are FBS, and that's a big if, we need to be just as serious about basketball as we are about football. We may be a football school, but having 100 or so students show up to games is ridiculous. If the team wins, the fans will support them. If the team continues to lose, then you will see less and less students show up.
Re: Jason Capel... should he stay or should he go?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:13 am
by proudofyosef
As much as I hate saying this, he should get one more year--ONLY because he has a good class coming in next year. I think Kobani, Scott and especially Graham could make a difference. If he doesn't turn things around significantly in 2013-14, then fire him. What would be something for the program and him to consider is bringing in a veteran assistant (his father?) who really knows what he's doing. His dad is probably the only guy we could afford, because he'd probably do it for half-price.
Re: Jason Capel... should he stay or should he go?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:17 am
by Gonzo
Is this a serious question? If we have any means to replace him, it MUST be done or we can go ahead and chalk up another god-awful year.
Re: Jason Capel... should he stay or should he go?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:19 am
by Gonzo
8993 wrote:We may be a football school, but having 100 or so students show up to games is ridiculous. If the team wins, the fans will support them. If the team continues to lose, then you will see less and less students show up.
Student turnout really isn't that bad compared to alum turnout. About 90% of the crowd last night was students. People need to drive up the mountain, but first we need to put a team on the court that's worth a 4-6 hour round trip.
Re: Jason Capel... should he stay or should he go?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:26 am
by appgrouch
Gonzo wrote:8993 wrote:We may be a football school, but having 100 or so students show up to games is ridiculous. If the team wins, the fans will support them. If the team continues to lose, then you will see less and less students show up.
Student turnout really isn't that bad compared to alum turnout. About 90% of the crowd last night was students. People need to drive up the mountain, but first we need to put a team on the court that's worth a 4-6 hour round trip.
What game were you at? The crowd that stayed was around about 60/40 Students. Part of that was do it being a Greek Night. The first half crowd was maybe 70/30, but that was with athletic honor roll members and 90% of them left after the half time presentation.
The "Paid" attendance was hurt by the fact that it was a Wednesday night game, and there is still a good bit of the local fans that go to Wed. night services.
Re: Jason Capel... should he stay or should he go?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:34 am
by Gonzo
appgrouch wrote:Gonzo wrote:8993 wrote:We may be a football school, but having 100 or so students show up to games is ridiculous. If the team wins, the fans will support them. If the team continues to lose, then you will see less and less students show up.
Student turnout really isn't that bad compared to alum turnout. About 90% of the crowd last night was students. People need to drive up the mountain, but first we need to put a team on the court that's worth a 4-6 hour round trip.
What game were you at? The crowd that stayed was around about 60/40 Students. Part of that was do it being a Greek Night. The first half crowd was maybe 70/30, but that was with athletic honor roll members and 90% of them left after the half time presentation.
There were <200 people on the side behind the benches. All the student sections were almost full. Yeah they cleared out because there were a ton of transient, frattastic douches, but overall, student turnout dwarfed that of alums.
Most other games aren't quite as dramatic, but there's still usually about a 50/50 split. Go to any other school and see that the student/alum ration is. I realize that we are a special case when it comes to our Mountain resort location/weeknights and students live right there/get in for free ect, but you can't expect the students to get us back to having ~3,000 every game like we were doing three years ago. People have to make the trip.
Re: Jason Capel... should he stay or should he go?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:41 am
by asumike83
While I've never been excited about it, my stance has been that our best course of action would be to keep him for the last year in his contract, haul in the 2013 class, cut ties if things aren't better after 2014 and leave a talented roster for the next coach.
However, last night's performance might have moved me over to the 'cut ties now' side. Unless it absolutely breaks the bank to buy him out and spend money on an experienced coach, we may have to take our chances on keeping the 2013 recruits under new leadership and put ourselves in a better position to recruit for 2014. We sure as hell aren't extending him and I can't imagine he'll have much success on the recruiting trail with no guarantee that he'll even be around when the kids come to school.
There is no excuse for losing at home to The Citadel, none. We took a huge step back and set another low point in this season, which I hardly imagined possible. Last night's game was embarrassing and not even just because we lost. That was a terrible display of basketball between two teams that were both trying to give the game away. Another year of performing this far below our talent level (and I still do think we've got talent) could have more negative impact on our program than the positive impact of some good recruits.
I put this mess on Cobb more than Capel. Nobody in their right mind would turn down the chance to be a Division I head coach but he was not ready. I think Jason wants to win, he cares and he tries but that just isn't enough. When the time does come, I will wish him well but we cannot afford to have a guy going through on the job training in games that count at such an important time for our athletic department.
Re: Jason Capel... should he stay or should he go?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:50 am
by cbarrier90
proudofyosef wrote:As much as I hate saying this, he should get one more year--ONLY because he has a good class coming in next year. I think Kobani, Scott and especially Graham could make a difference. If he doesn't turn things around significantly in 2013-14, then fire him. What would be something for the program and him to consider is bringing in a veteran assistant (his father?) who really knows what he's doing. His dad is probably the only guy we could afford, because he'd probably do it for half-price.
Keep in mind this is after Capel takes over a team that makes a run to the SoCon title game with an arguably better team the next season and one year with arguably ASU's best basketball player ever in one of the worst conferences in all of Division I.
Jason Capel Era (2010- present)
43-47 overall
1-3 vs. Davidson
2-4 vs. Western
10-16 in games decided by 5 pts or less
2-2 in SoCon tournament
0 North Division titles
0 SoCon Championship appearances
Knowing this:
1. Have we improved over the course of his three years here?
2. Have we improved now that we have his players here?
3. Has he shown anything over the course of his tenure that gives you confidence that anything will be different with yet another year at the helm?
4. Has he shown that he possesses the qualities to be a winning basketball coach for this program? If so, what are those qualities?
5. What were the expectations for this program when he took over and where are the expectations now?
Based on this information, I don't see why you would bring him back for a fourth year and if you did, I don't see why you wouldn't expect more of the same.
Re: Jason Capel... should he stay or should he go?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:50 am
by appgrouch
Gonzo wrote:appgrouch wrote:Gonzo wrote:8993 wrote:We may be a football school, but having 100 or so students show up to games is ridiculous. If the team wins, the fans will support them. If the team continues to lose, then you will see less and less students show up.
Student turnout really isn't that bad compared to alum turnout. About 90% of the crowd last night was students. People need to drive up the mountain, but first we need to put a team on the court that's worth a 4-6 hour round trip.
What game were you at? The crowd that stayed was around about 60/40 Students. Part of that was do it being a Greek Night. The first half crowd was maybe 70/30, but that was with athletic honor roll members and 90% of them left after the half time presentation.
There were <200 people on the side behind the benches. All the student sections were almost full. Yeah they cleared out because there were a ton of transient, frattastic douches, but overall, student turnout dwarfed that of alums.
Most other games aren't quite as dramatic, but there's still usually about a 50/50 split. Go to any other school and see that the student/alum ration is. I realize that we are a special case when it comes to our Mountain resort location/weeknights and students live right there/get in for free ect, but you can't expect the students to get us back to having ~3,000 every game like we were doing three years ago. People have to make the trip.
Most of the "transient, frattastic douches" stayed for most of the game.
All the "Gods among men" football players hightailed it after half time.
Section L2 (band) was at most 50%
Section L3 (Center) was at most 80%
Section L4 (App Bench) was at most 70%
Re: Jason Capel... should he stay or should he go?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:53 am
by Gonzo
I think our coaching woes are related to having no offensive or defensive scheme, rather than poorly motivating the players, bad subs, bad time management ect.
Re: Jason Capel... should he stay or should he go?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:57 am
by Gonzo
appgrouch wrote:Gonzo wrote:appgrouch wrote:Gonzo wrote:8993 wrote:We may be a football school, but having 100 or so students show up to games is ridiculous. If the team wins, the fans will support them. If the team continues to lose, then you will see less and less students show up.
Student turnout really isn't that bad compared to alum turnout. About 90% of the crowd last night was students. People need to drive up the mountain, but first we need to put a team on the court that's worth a 4-6 hour round trip.
What game were you at? The crowd that stayed was around about 60/40 Students. Part of that was do it being a Greek Night. The first half crowd was maybe 70/30, but that was with athletic honor roll members and 90% of them left after the half time presentation.
There were <200 people on the side behind the benches. All the student sections were almost full. Yeah they cleared out because there were a ton of transient, frattastic douches, but overall, student turnout dwarfed that of alums.
Most other games aren't quite as dramatic, but there's still usually about a 50/50 split. Go to any other school and see that the student/alum ration is. I realize that we are a special case when it comes to our Mountain resort location/weeknights and students live right there/get in for free ect, but you can't expect the students to get us back to having ~3,000 every game like we were doing three years ago. People have to make the trip.
Most of the "transient, frattastic douches" stayed for most of the game.
All the "Gods among men" football players hightailed it after half time.
Section L2 (band) was at most 50%
Section L3 (Center) was at most 80%
Section L4 (App Bench) was at most 70%
I was in the heart of the fratty section with Big C (we overheard some of the most despicable comments I have ever heard), just to the left of the center student section if you're facing the court. Most of the girls left at the end of regulation, but a good contingent of frat gut guys stayed to the bitter end.
You're about right with L3 and L4 and the percentages as far as what I observed. I just don't see how you can think that 80 and 70% isn't dwarfing sections of alums that were about 10-20% full.
Re: Jason Capel... should he stay or should he go?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:01 am
by AppGrad1
This should answer all questions...
Re: Jason Capel... should he stay or should he go?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:05 am
by MountainMan
Gonzo wrote:Is this a serious question?
While I understand that sentiment to a degree, I certainly think it is a serious question.
I would seriously keep him around one more year. He didn't have enough coaching experience, the so-called search was basically fixed, and so forth. But, the program was also in some degree of turmoil and we experienced some player turnover, etc. This team is relative young -- only two seniors -- and numerous freshmen and sophomores with potential get a good deal of playing time. Capel has lined up what appear to be some good recruits. I know last night was a disaster, but outside of that, the last half of the season has looked significantly better than the first half of the season to me -- that's some improvement.
If we end up with a losing record next year, let him go. A new coach would come in to a team with decent talent and have a chance to see results without starting from scratch.
If he improves as a coach, and the young players make progress and play up to their potential, ASU could see much better results next year.
If we had been having consistent 20+ win seasons, winning the SoCon frequently, etc. then I'd be more understanding of the outrage over Capel after such a short time period, but given our history, given a young team, given an inexperienced coach, given 3 different head coaches in 4 (or 5) years, I say give Capel one more year.
Re: Jason Capel... should he stay or should he go?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:06 am
by Goapps15
I agree with Gonzo we run zero offensive scheme. If a team presses us we still haven't figured out how to beat it. If they play zone we just pass the ball around the top of the arc and then jack up a 30 foot three. It's awful to watch because it's been the same way all season. I love my school with such a passion but this is just frustrating.
I have been there every night no matter what happens. I will continue to go to games as a student and encourage others to go. If the best reason to keep Capel is because of his recruiting class, that is not a good enough reason to me.
Re: Jason Capel... should he stay or should he go?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:17 am
by appgrouch
cbarrier90 wrote:
Knowing this:
1. Have we improved over the course of his three years here?
We have been about where Houston was in the off years he had, without a win of note to be a good signal
2. Have we improved now that we have his players here?
Alot of the players that he has relied on have been transfers and not "his" players. Next year will see 3 Fully Capel coached starters as has this year.
3. Has he shown anything over the course of his tenure that gives you confidence that anything will be different with yet another year at the helm?
No. The development of talent isn't there. There will be a lot of players that will still be "one year away" or we will be wondering what happened to them in the off season (ex Trice)
4. What were the expectations for this program when he took over and where are the expectations now?
The group that he took over should have allowed him a better runway to grow into the role. With Sims and the group that we had we could have been back in the finals, instead we finish 6th overall and bounce out in the second round. As for next? season, a team without discipline will lose its floor general (Healy) with only 2nd year seniors to replace him (Baskin,Okam, Spagnolo) and Canty as a 2nd year Jr. and a possible battle at the point between Burgess and Neal. Considering that UNCG will have its act back together and Chatt. being a back to normal next season, I could see us being 4th in the north 8th or 9th overall. Expectations bad.
Re: Jason Capel... should he stay or should he go?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:19 am
by mountaineerman
he needs to go and bring in Greenberg, another year of this and the program will absolutely be at rock bottom.
Re: Jason Capel... should he stay or should he go?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:19 am
by asumike83
Goapps15 wrote: If they play zone we just pass the ball around the top of the arc and then jack up a 30 foot three. It's awful to watch because it's been the same way all season.
Um... this! I was about to pull my hair out when they went zone. In the final minute of regulation, Canty finally decided to take his guy off the dribble and what happened? Kick-out for two wide open 3's by Tab Hamilton.
Then, for whatever reason, we went right back to passing it around the perimeter and taking contested shots on most of our possessions in the extra period.
Tab's performance late in the game with two big 3's to give us a 4-point lead in the final minute and another big one in OT to give us a 1-point lead is really the only bright spot I found in our play last night. He tried to put us on his back but our defense was absolutely miserable and couldn't hold either lead.
Re: Jason Capel... should he stay or should he go?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:23 pm
by Kgfish
Do the right thing, the honorable thing Jason... resign. I'm sure daddy and big brother will find you a new gig.
Re: Jason Capel... should he stay or should he go?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:26 pm
by Gonzo
asumike83 wrote:Goapps15 wrote: If they play zone we just pass the ball around the top of the arc and then jack up a 30 foot three. It's awful to watch because it's been the same way all season.
Um... this! I was about to pull my hair out when they went zone. In the final minute of regulation, Canty finally decided to take his guy off the dribble and what happened? Kick-out for two wide open 3's by Tab Hamilton.
Then, for whatever reason, we went right back to passing it around the perimeter and taking contested shots on most of our possessions in the extra period.
Tab's performance late in the game with two big 3's to give us a 4-point lead in the final minute and another big one in OT to give us a 1-point lead is really the only bright spot I found in our play last night. He tried to put us on his back but our defense was absolutely miserable and couldn't hold either lead.
We started out the season running figure eights at the top of the key for 25 seconds and then lofting a desperate three. Now we just pass it between three players at the top of the key before throwing up the prayer. It seems like we regressed, which I never thought possible.
There was a good 6 minute period in the second half yesterday in which we didn't step foot inside the arc with the ball.
Re: Jason Capel... should he stay or should he go?
Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:48 pm
by hapapp
Last night's game is the one game where we really shouldn't be complaining about our 3 point shooting, it was probably our best of the season. In fact, we were in the game because of it. We lost last night because of turnovers and the fact that the Citadel took 14 more FTs than we did. There is much to dissect with respect to this team's offensive play but the main problem in my eyes is the PG play. You are not going to win many games when your PG turns it over 5-6 times a game.
I am ambivalent about the question posed. I have vacillated back and forth about it. After last night's loss I took the knee jerk position of it was time for JC to go. I still have great doubts about his ability to right the ship. On the other hand, he does have, what appears to be, a very good incoming class. Combined with this young team, he may be assembling a quality squad. I'd hate to give up on him too soon. There plenty of examples of coaches who struggle their first couple of years and then find the formula. I have no idea if that is the case with JC.
Back and forth I go.