Sagarin Ratings

[appstate77]

48 after week one. Slightly ahead of Carolina Blue, slightly behind Carolina Garnet.......and waaaaaay up on Charlotte.

[Black Saturday]

I have a problem being behind NDSU. Our program has progressed miles ahead of being FCS. APPs 2019 version has way more depth than any of our FCS championship teams. NDSU is a playing in a shallow pool.

[VNova]

I have a problem being behind NDSU. Our program has progressed miles ahead of being FCS. APPs 2019 version has way more depth than any of our FCS championship teams. NDSU is a playing in a shallow pool.

Not a fan either. It's bonkers they rank ahead of South Carolina and us.

[ah59396]

I have a problem being behind NDSU. Our program has progressed miles ahead of being FCS. APPs 2019 version has way more depth than any of our FCS championship teams. NDSU is a playing in a shallow pool.

Until they start losing to power 5 teams and stop winning national championships, I think their spot is well deserved. Hell we didn’t even beat Wake.

[kornegaylw]

We didn't make the G5 Top 10 on Underdogdynasty.com for Week 1 either.

To be fair though we've done nothing this year to garner any attention. App getting ranked is less about the talent of the team and more about the hype surrounding the team.

[97APP]

I don't like any system that tries to place FBS and FCS teams in the same ranking. There aren't enough cross over games to generate any reliable data. I'm not saying that there aren't FCS teams that are better than FBS teams, I'm just saying that any combined ranking is inherently flawed.

[Yosef84]

If we do what we're supposed to do, we won't be behind them much longer. I think it's a little bogus having NDSU that high also, but nobody can really argue about their accomplishments on the field.

[bigdaddyg]

NDSU can finish number one at the end of the season and will still be playing their final game in Frisco.

[ArmantiWaterSafety]

# of NDSU wins against P5 since 2010 - 5
# of App State wins against P5 since 2010 - 0

Yes, most of our losses were against ranked P5 (which 1 of their wins was against a ranked P5) but let's all get off of our high horses and start winning some games against P5's like our "lesser" competition has done.

[StorminASU]

# of NDSU wins against P5 since 2010 - 5
# of App State wins against P5 since 2010 - 0

Yes, most of our losses were against ranked P5 (which 1 of their wins was against a ranked P5) but let's all get off of our high horses and start winning some games against P5's like our "lesser" competition has done.

Lets look at the P5s we've faced in that time frame vs. NDSU:
NDSU
2010 Kansas - Finished 3-9
2011 Minnesota - Finished 3-9
2012 Colorado State - Finished 4-8 (Not P5)
2013 Kansas State - Finished 8-5
2014 Iowa State - Finished 2-10
2016 #13 Iowa - Finished 8-5 (Did not finish in top 25)


Now let's look at the FBS opponents App has faced:
2010 #4 Florida - Finished 8-5 (App was FCS)
2011 #13 Virginia Tech - Finished 11-3 (App was FCS)(VT ended season ranked #21)
2012 East Carolina - Finished 8-5 (App was FCS)(Not P5, which doesn't help)
2013 #25 Georgia - Finished 8-5 (App was FCS)
2014 Michigan - Finished 5-7 (App was transitioning)
2015 #12 Clemson - Finished 14-1 (Lost in final to Alabama)(Ended at #2)
2016 #9 Tennessee - Finished 9-4 (Ended at #22)
2016 #25 Miami - Finished 9-4 (Ended at #20)
2017 #15 Georgia - Finished 13-2 (Lost in final to Alabama)(Ended at #2)
2017 Wake Forest - Finished 8-5
2018 #10 Penn State- Finished 9-4 (Ended at #17)


Now there are more than 1 game in there we could've/should've won, but for the most part, we have played much, much harder competition than the P5s that NDSU has went up against. ECU (not P5, which makes it worse) & Wake are the clear outliers to an otherwise ridiculous scheduling coincidence of App playing P5 teams at their best. Might count Michigan too, but there was clearly a revenge factor there.

Regardless, we gotta start beating some P5s!!!

[appstatealum]

Who actually cares about NDSU. The FCS is dead. The gap is closing between all levels of football, with the exception of the top 1-2 teams in each P5 conference. With this, these types of “upsets” will be more common moving forward. I commend NDSU for dominating the FCS level since we departed, but the reality is, the FCS is just a shell of its former self.

Many of the “talented” FCS guys of the past are getting spots at G5’s. The better FCS schools are getting similar talent as low end G5 schools, and the upper end of G5 schools are getting the second/third tier guys who know they will never see the field at their respective P5 programs. That’s why you see a lot of G5’s competing with mid/lower end P5s. Just look at the week 1 scores between FCS and G5 and G5 and P5. Games, for the most part, were closer than we have seen historically.

[EastHallApp]

# of NDSU wins against P5 since 2010 - 5
# of App State wins against P5 since 2010 - 0

Yes, most of our losses were against ranked P5 (which 1 of their wins was against a ranked P5) but let's all get off of our high horses and start winning some games against P5's like our "lesser" competition has done.

Lets look at the P5s we've faced in that time frame vs. NDSU:
NDSU
2010 Kansas - Finished 3-9
2011 Minnesota - Finished 3-9
2012 Colorado State - Finished 4-8 (Not P5)
2013 Kansas State - Finished 8-5
2014 Iowa State - Finished 2-10
2016 #13 Iowa - Finished 8-5 (Did not finish in top 25)


Now let's look at the FBS opponents App has faced:
2010 #4 Florida - Finished 8-5 (App was FCS)
2011 #13 Virginia Tech - Finished 11-3 (App was FCS)(VT ended season ranked #21)
2012 East Carolina - Finished 8-5 (App was FCS)(Not P5, which doesn't help)
2013 #25 Georgia - Finished 8-5 (App was FCS)
2014 Michigan - Finished 5-7 (App was transitioning)
2015 #12 Clemson - Finished 14-1 (Lost in semifinals to Alabama)(Ended at #2)
2016 #9 Tennessee - Finished 9-4 (Ended at #22)
2016 #25 Miami - Finished 9-4 (Ended at #20)
2017 #15 Georgia - Finished 13-2 (Lost in semifinals to Alabama)(Ended at #2)
2017 Wake Forest - Finished 8-5
2018 #10 Penn State- Finished 9-4 (Ended at #17)


Now there are more than 1 game in there we could've/should've won, but for the most part, we have played much, much harder competition than the P5s that NDSU has went up against. ECU (not P5, which makes it worse) & Wake are the clear outliers to an otherwise ridiculous scheduling coincidence of App playing P5 teams at their best. Might count Michigan too, but there was clearly a revenge factor there.

Regardless, we gotta start beating some P5s!!!

TBH, I'd say your list (nice job putting that together, btw) puts the lie to the old "App always catches P5s at their best" myth. We did catch Clemson and '16 Georgia just as they made big jumps. Otherwise, that VT season was about par for the course for them at that time. Miami and Tennessee each had one of their better recent teams when we faced them, but certainly not near their historical peaks. Penn State dropped off from the previous couple seasons. Florida and '13 Georgia had relatively down years by their standards. Michigan had arguably their worst team in recent memory. I guess you'd have to include Wake as being at a high point, but they were still very beatable.

Overall, I'd say our P5 opponents have had a mix of up years, down years and average years. In other words, about what you'd expect.

[appstatealum]

True, but each of the P5s we played are part of that elite Southern Region and all have sustainability in terms of top tier recruiting. The level of athlete a Georgia, VT, Clemson, Penn St, Miami and even UT is typically a big step up from the likes of Kansas, K State, Colorado St, Minnesota etc. the outliers being Iowa and ECU/Wake. UT, as of the last two seasons, is just starting to experience the result of their multi year decline as it relates to recruiting.

[Rick83]

# of NDSU wins against P5 since 2010 - 5
# of App State wins against P5 since 2010 - 0

Yes, most of our losses were against ranked P5 (which 1 of their wins was against a ranked P5) but let's all get off of our high horses and start winning some games against P5's like our "lesser" competition has done.

Lets look at the P5s we've faced in that time frame vs. NDSU:
NDSU
2010 Kansas - Finished 3-9
2011 Minnesota - Finished 3-9
2012 Colorado State - Finished 4-8 (Not P5)
2013 Kansas State - Finished 8-5
2014 Iowa State - Finished 2-10
2016 #13 Iowa - Finished 8-5 (Did not finish in top 25)


Now let's look at the FBS opponents App has faced:
2010 #4 Florida - Finished 8-5 (App was FCS)
2011 #13 Virginia Tech - Finished 11-3 (App was FCS)(VT ended season ranked #21)
2012 East Carolina - Finished 8-5 (App was FCS)(Not P5, which doesn't help)
2013 #25 Georgia - Finished 8-5 (App was FCS)
2014 Michigan - Finished 5-7 (App was transitioning)
2015 #12 Clemson - Finished 14-1 (Lost in semifinals to Alabama)(Ended at #2)
2016 #9 Tennessee - Finished 9-4 (Ended at #22)
2016 #25 Miami - Finished 9-4 (Ended at #20)
2017 #15 Georgia - Finished 13-2 (Lost in semifinals to Alabama)(Ended at #2)
2017 Wake Forest - Finished 8-5
2018 #10 Penn State- Finished 9-4 (Ended at #17)


Now there are more than 1 game in there we could've/should've won, but for the most part, we have played much, much harder competition than the P5s that NDSU has went up against. ECU (not P5, which makes it worse) & Wake are the clear outliers to an otherwise ridiculous scheduling coincidence of App playing P5 teams at their best. Might count Michigan too, but there was clearly a revenge factor there.

Regardless, we gotta start beating some P5s!!!

"2015 Clemson", and "2017 Georgia" you're showing as losing in semifinals but weren't those losses in the national championship games? Which resulted in their final rankings at #2? Not being critical of your post, I actually love what you did, just clarifying that since 2015 we've played two teams that ended up playing in the national championship game.

[VNova]

# of NDSU wins against P5 since 2010 - 5
# of App State wins against P5 since 2010 - 0

Yes, most of our losses were against ranked P5 (which 1 of their wins was against a ranked P5) but let's all get off of our high horses and start winning some games against P5's like our "lesser" competition has done.

Lets look at the P5s we've faced in that time frame vs. NDSU:
NDSU
2010 Kansas - Finished 3-9
2011 Minnesota - Finished 3-9
2012 Colorado State - Finished 4-8 (Not P5)
2013 Kansas State - Finished 8-5
2014 Iowa State - Finished 2-10
2016 #13 Iowa - Finished 8-5 (Did not finish in top 25)


Now let's look at the FBS opponents App has faced:
2010 #4 Florida - Finished 8-5 (App was FCS)
2011 #13 Virginia Tech - Finished 11-3 (App was FCS)(VT ended season ranked #21)
2012 East Carolina - Finished 8-5 (App was FCS)(Not P5, which doesn't help)
2013 #25 Georgia - Finished 8-5 (App was FCS)
2014 Michigan - Finished 5-7 (App was transitioning)
2015 #12 Clemson - Finished 14-1 (Lost in semifinals to Alabama)(Ended at #2)
2016 #9 Tennessee - Finished 9-4 (Ended at #22)
2016 #25 Miami - Finished 9-4 (Ended at #20)
2017 #15 Georgia - Finished 13-2 (Lost in semifinals to Alabama)(Ended at #2)
2017 Wake Forest - Finished 8-5
2018 #10 Penn State- Finished 9-4 (Ended at #17)


Now there are more than 1 game in there we could've/should've won, but for the most part, we have played much, much harder competition than the P5s that NDSU has went up against. ECU (not P5, which makes it worse) & Wake are the clear outliers to an otherwise ridiculous scheduling coincidence of App playing P5 teams at their best. Might count Michigan too, but there was clearly a revenge factor there.

Regardless, we gotta start beating some P5s!!!

"2015 Clemson", and "2017 Georgia" you're showing as losing in semifinals but weren't those losses in the national championship games? Which resulted in their final rankings at #2? Not being critical of your post, I actually love what you did, just clarifying that since 2015 we've played two teams that ended up playing in the national championship game.

It's odd to think how the narrative might have changed if we beat TN, Wake and Penn as well.

[AtlAppMan]

Relative to our past/FCS comparison to NDSU. I would personally throw out the notion that we hit the P5 teams at their peak but rather state that most of our P5 opponents are in the upper tier of FBS. Our P5 opponents are mostly top 25 with several being top 5 teams in those years. The problem we often confronted in FCS was that few FBS teams, other than these top tier teams would even consider playing us.

Our ongoing series with Wake is proof of how we could have had a closer competitive series with many mid-tier P5 year over year IF we could have gotten them on our schedule. Substitute numerous comparable teams to Wake and the outcome would have been similar. That is basically the deal with most of the NDSU opponents listed, not a single top 25 at the end of the respective year they played them. The proof is exactly why Wake stopped playing us because they knew we could win our share and others like Wake didn't want the same.

The story going forward is a bit different now that we are FBS. We do need to step up and beat P5's as we are now on a completely different playing field. All of that stuff above is yesterday's news and we need to move on.

[StorminASU]

"2015 Clemson", and "2017 Georgia" you're showing as losing in semifinals but weren't those losses in the national championship games? Which resulted in their final rankings at #2? Not being critical of your post, I actually love what you did, just clarifying that since 2015 we've played two teams that ended up playing in the national championship game.

You're absolutely right, sorry. I corrected it.

I was just making the point that regardless of whether we caught teams at there best or not, we played significantly better competition over that same time period.

[StorminASU]

Relative to our past/FCS comparison to NDSU. I would personally throw out the notion that we hit the P5 teams at their peak but rather state that most of our P5 opponents are in the upper tier of FBS. Our P5 opponents are mostly top 25 with several being top 5 teams in those years. The problem we often confronted in FCS was that few FBS teams, other than these top tier teams would even consider playing us.

Our ongoing series with Wake is proof of how we could have had a closer competitive series with many mid-tier P5 year over year IF we could have gotten them on our schedule. Substitute numerous comparable teams to Wake and the outcome would have been similar. That is basically the deal with most of the NDSU opponents listed, not a single top 25 at the end of the respective year they played them. The proof is exactly why Wake stopped playing us because they knew we could win our share and others like Wake didn't want the same.

The story going forward is a bit different now that we are FBS. We do need to step up and beat P5's as we are now on a completely different playing field. All of that stuff above is yesterday's news and we need to move on.

I agree completely. We could have won most of those games as well I'd wager.

[ah59396]

Facts are we haven’t beaten a P5 team in over a decade and NDSU has done it 5 times.

I’m tired of hearing the excuses. Good for NDSU, they deserve the accolades they’ve received and it makes us look petty to argue they shouldn’t be considered. How many of us were elated to get AP votes after the Michigan win??

If we are as good as we think we are, we’ve got 2 VERY winnable P5 games on the schedule this year. And according to these same Sagarin rankings, we should blow one of them out.

[Rick83]

"2015 Clemson", and "2017 Georgia" you're showing as losing in semifinals but weren't those losses in the national championship games? Which resulted in their final rankings at #2? Not being critical of your post, I actually love what you did, just clarifying that since 2015 we've played two teams that ended up playing in the national championship game.

You're absolutely right, sorry. I corrected it.

I was just making the point that regardless of whether we caught teams at there best or not, we played significantly better competition over that same time period.

I agree completely and we'd have won the TN and WF games if we wouldn't have had the kicking issues. And of course we'd have most likely won the Penn State game if Jalin hadn't been such a beast and scored that last touchdown so quickly...so close...so freakin' close on all 3 of those games!