EXPANDING STADIUM TO 40k CAPACITY

[AppStateNews]

DG: We have some people that will give us a bag of money. We want to build things with it. It will make us more bags of money. That is all I can say for now, as there are other building projects to complete first.

Cabin Members: All right. Where is the poison? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide, and we both drink, and find out who is right... and who is dead.

DG: I'm on your side. There is no poison. I just want this school to be as successful as possible.

Cabin Memebers: But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool; you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

DG: Truly, I am not trying to poison anyone, and I didn't provide the wine tonight. It was catered. I'm just letting you know we have a plan in place to build something that will be positive for us in the long run. Does that make sense?

Cabin Members: Not remotely. Because iocane comes from Australia, as everyone knows, and Australia is entirely peopled with criminals, and criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.

DG: Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

Cabin Members: Wait till I get going! Now, where was I?

DG: Australia

Cabin Members: Yes, Australia. And you must have suspected I would have known the powder's origin, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

DG: Honestly, the wine is clean. We had it catered in. Does anyone else have any questions?

Cabin Members: You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? You've beaten my giant, which means you're exceptionally strong, so you could've put the poison in your own goblet, trusting on your strength to save you, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But, you've also bested my Spaniard, which means you must have studied, and in studying you must have learned that man is mortal, so you would have put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

DG: You're trying to trick me into giving away something. It won't work.

Cabin Members: You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - the most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line"!

DG: I've been assured the money is in the bag, and I believe that the money is in the bag with enough confidence that I am saying it publicly.

Cabin Members: As I told you, it would be absolutely, totally, and in all other ways inconceivable!

DG:................ sigh.............“There are no words to contain all my wisdom. I am so cunning, crafty and clever, so filled with deceit, guile and chicanery, such a knave, so shrewd, cagey as well as calculating, as diabolical as I am vulpine, as tricky as I am untrustworthy…”

Cabine Members: Can we get some seats with arms instead of aluminum bleachers?

DG: Can someone bring me a poisoned wine cup?

[Stonewall]

I have NEVER said the project wouldn't happen. I feel very confident that it will. But "fully funded" nine months ago or today is a joke.

Just last week, Gillin said the East stands will be a profit center. Do you think he is able to say that without knowing how they are going to fund it? C'mon man...

Some things take time. Just because YOU haven't heard an announcement yet doesn't mean pieces haven't been moving for years.

I believe all of that. I don't believe it was fully funded nine months ago or now. They are working on the funding. I'll ask again: are there actual engineering plans or just a picture? Is there an actual budget?

So you believe an AD is going to tell the fan base that a new building will quickly become a profit center without knowing how they are going to pay for said new building? You're insane if you think that...

Funding is secured.

No idea about the engineering plans or if it's just renderings right now. Not sure where they are in they process.

Yes, a budget has been provided.

Let's just say the project will cost 50 million. Much of that will be paid for over time with the sales of premium tickets and suites. Let's say that we get a corporate sponsorship for several years. At the end of the day the University will have to front the cost upfront. Overtime, like the NEZ it will produce revenue. But the cash is not on had. It will have to be borrowed

Yes , as I understand it.

[Yosef10]

I keep seeing comments about the current economic conditions. I’m taking that to mean interest rates? If so, the fed fund rate is what, 5.25%? That’s still a pretty historically low rate outside of a few years in the early 90s and 2000s, and of course the zero interest rate era following ’08.

Are we relying on rates falling back down to those, some would argue, artificially low rates? Is that the only way this project is moving forward?

[AppStateNews]

I keep seeing comments about the current economic conditions. I’m taking that to mean interest rates? If so, the fed fund rate is what, 5.25%? That’s still a pretty historically low rate outside of a few years in the early 90s and 2000s, and of course the zero interest rate era following ’08.

Are we relying on rates falling back down to those, some would argue, artificially low rates? Is that the only way this project is moving forward?

Inflation. The price to build things has gone up tremendously in the last 9 months (really longer, but since the announcement)...

[311neers]

I keep seeing comments about the current economic conditions. I’m taking that to mean interest rates? If so, the fed fund rate is what, 5.25%? That’s still a pretty historically low rate outside of a few years in the early 90s and 2000s, and of course the zero interest rate era following ’08.

Are we relying on rates falling back down to those, some would argue, artificially low rates? Is that the only way this project is moving forward?

Last week we were quoted a 6.2% rate on a 25 year loan for an institutional buyer/developer from one of the big banks. And that’s with 65% LTV (banks aren’t lending more than 70% LTV). Tack that on along with buildings/materials/labor costing 40% more than in 2020 and it’s tough sledding. You used to be able to (2018-2019) build an office building or something similar to
the NEZ for $200/ft. That same
building today probably is $300/ft. And who knows what type of soil and rock is under the East Side from a sitework/structural standpoint. But, things aren’t getting cheaper and the rate isn’t horrible in the grand scheme of things, so you are right, if the funds are there, why not now?

[Yosef10]

I keep seeing comments about the current economic conditions. I’m taking that to mean interest rates? If so, the fed fund rate is what, 5.25%? That’s still a pretty historically low rate outside of a few years in the early 90s and 2000s, and of course the zero interest rate era following ’08.

Are we relying on rates falling back down to those, some would argue, artificially low rates? Is that the only way this project is moving forward?

Inflation. The price to build things has gone up tremendously in the last 9 months (really longer, but since the announcement)...

Gotcha gotcha. Yeah you’re right, I guess along the same lines of rates, I just wonder if material costs are going to return to pre-pandemic levels, at least any time soon. Tough change in environments for those who gotta make those calls.

[BambooRdApp]

I keep seeing comments about the current economic conditions. I’m taking that to mean interest rates? If so, the fed fund rate is what, 5.25%? That’s still a pretty historically low rate outside of a few years in the early 90s and 2000s, and of course the zero interest rate era following ’08.

Are we relying on rates falling back down to those, some would argue, artificially low rates? Is that the only way this project is moving forward?

Inflation. The price to build things has gone up tremendously in the last 9 months (really longer, but since the announcement)...

Gotcha gotcha. Yeah you’re right, I guess along the same lines of rates, I just wonder if material costs are going to return to pre-pandemic levels, at least any time soon. Tough change in environments for those who gotta make those calls.

Not anticipated in next several years..and maybe extended timeframe... employee compensation is also not anticipated to decrease and is expected to increase at higher levels that it was year over year as compared to pre-pandemic period. There is a worker shortage in many industries...war for talent so to speak.

[Tru2ASU]

In some aspects of construction, costs have risen over 40 percent over the last few years...

[ericsaid]

The question is what does App give up in potential ticket revenue for non-premium games if there is a permanent expansion to 40,000? If you only fill that up two times a year, you're likely driving down prices by increasing supply not only for that game, but for future games. You may also drive down the incentive to join Yosef Club if tickets can be had whether you get season tickets or not.

You also have the question of current performance. If performance continues to trend the way its currently going what does that mean for attendance of games against less desirable opponents? You also would prefer not to get on the G5 train of bringing in outsiders as coaches because I believe, to a certain extent, that the fan base feels more engaged when one of their own is coaching. Satterfield and Clark have certainly bridged the gap between old and new which helps fans continue to feel the history of the program. If you get into a situation where you're bringing in guys like Drinkwitz (great coach, but people dislike him here), what does that do to fan interest?

I would think that a more permanent structure to the East side that may increase capacity to 35,000 or so, along with some luxury boxes, would be more suitable than a full on expansion.

Just my opinion though, which isn't worth a whole helluva lot.

My belief is they make up demand numbers. I am sure season tickets sales were strong but if you limit the number to 12,000 in a 25,000 seat stadium then yeah you sold out of season tickets. The same can be done in a 40,000 seat stadium.

I would like to see the 40,000 seat stadium for concert and other event opportunities as well as being able to attract big name football teams to Boone. We can pay teams to come to Boone if we can sell out 45,000 tickets at 130 bucks a piece. Heck, Wake Forest may be a buy game in the future or we could pay Duke to come get a whoopin'. I wish we would stick some seats up on the hill beside the scoreboard (both sides) and keep the hill for the students. I like the students being close and involved in the game.

Duke would be a fun opponent but in order to schedule them, I think you try to weasel yourself into some basketball agreement that is amenable to App. Wake, NC State, UNC, and ECU should be on future schedules each year. Maybe not all in one season, obviously, but one or two of them per year. I know some people enjoy playing UNC-Harrisburg but I just couldn't care less about them. It's not a UNC - App type feeling for me, it's just that it's a commuter school in a transient style city. Charlotte will be a major hub over the next few decades but I still think it's better suited as a professional sports town.

[BambooRdApp]

As it relates to football, it would be nice to see Dook come to KBS. For a first year head coach, the new guy is pretty good coach given he is not getting 5 stars on that roster. I actually believe they would be a tough game if the coach can get his recruits. May not achieve ACC championship level...but can have a winning record.
For basketball, Dook is never coming to Boone. Over the past many years, they only played away from home for the preseason TV tournaments and when they had to for the Big 10 challenge.

[spacemonkey]

The question is what does App give up in potential ticket revenue for non-premium games if there is a permanent expansion to 40,000? If you only fill that up two times a year, you're likely driving down prices by increasing supply not only for that game, but for future games. You may also drive down the incentive to join Yosef Club if tickets can be had whether you get season tickets or not.

You also have the question of current performance. If performance continues to trend the way its currently going what does that mean for attendance of games against less desirable opponents? You also would prefer not to get on the G5 train of bringing in outsiders as coaches because I believe, to a certain extent, that the fan base feels more engaged when one of their own is coaching. Satterfield and Clark have certainly bridged the gap between old and new which helps fans continue to feel the history of the program. If you get into a situation where you're bringing in guys like Drinkwitz (great coach, but people dislike him here), what does that do to fan interest?

I would think that a more permanent structure to the East side that may increase capacity to 35,000 or so, along with some luxury boxes, would be more suitable than a full on expansion.

Just my opinion though, which isn't worth a whole helluva lot.

My belief is they make up demand numbers. I am sure season tickets sales were strong but if you limit the number to 12,000 in a 25,000 seat stadium then yeah you sold out of season tickets. The same can be done in a 40,000 seat stadium.

I would like to see the 40,000 seat stadium for concert and other event opportunities as well as being able to attract big name football teams to Boone. We can pay teams to come to Boone if we can sell out 45,000 tickets at 130 bucks a piece. Heck, Wake Forest may be a buy game in the future or we could pay Duke to come get a whoopin'. I wish we would stick some seats up on the hill beside the scoreboard (both sides) and keep the hill for the students. I like the students being close and involved in the game.

Duke would be a fun opponent but in order to schedule them, I think you try to weasel yourself into some basketball agreement that is amenable to App. Wake, NC State, UNC, and ECU should be on future schedules each year. Maybe not all in one season, obviously, but one or two of them per year. I know some people enjoy playing UNC-Harrisburg but I just couldn't care less about them. It's not a UNC - App type feeling for me, it's just that it's a commuter school in a transient style city. Charlotte will be a major hub over the next few decades but I still think it's better suited as a professional sports town.

I like the idea of making an agreement with schools on our away games in nc that we sell tickets and keep revenue from tickets sold through AppState website even though it is an away game. We would sell many to uncg, uncc, wake, let them call it an away game. We call it a home game because of the amount of App fans there. Elon, Davidson and nc state should be interested. Any team not selling out their basketball arena should be interested.

[appgrad95&97]

This morning I read an article in a California paper that indicated that UC Berkeley's athletics department is in so much debt that UCLA will have to give some of its Big Ten TV money to Cal.

[AppSt94]

I believe that they $100 million in debt on their stadium alone.

[BambooRdApp]

The question is what does App give up in potential ticket revenue for non-premium games if there is a permanent expansion to 40,000? If you only fill that up two times a year, you're likely driving down prices by increasing supply not only for that game, but for future games. You may also drive down the incentive to join Yosef Club if tickets can be had whether you get season tickets or not.

You also have the question of current performance. If performance continues to trend the way its currently going what does that mean for attendance of games against less desirable opponents? You also would prefer not to get on the G5 train of bringing in outsiders as coaches because I believe, to a certain extent, that the fan base feels more engaged when one of their own is coaching. Satterfield and Clark have certainly bridged the gap between old and new which helps fans continue to feel the history of the program. If you get into a situation where you're bringing in guys like Drinkwitz (great coach, but people dislike him here), what does that do to fan interest?

I would think that a more permanent structure to the East side that may increase capacity to 35,000 or so, along with some luxury boxes, would be more suitable than a full on expansion.

Just my opinion though, which isn't worth a whole helluva lot.

My belief is they make up demand numbers. I am sure season tickets sales were strong but if you limit the number to 12,000 in a 25,000 seat stadium then yeah you sold out of season tickets. The same can be done in a 40,000 seat stadium.

I would like to see the 40,000 seat stadium for concert and other event opportunities as well as being able to attract big name football teams to Boone. We can pay teams to come to Boone if we can sell out 45,000 tickets at 130 bucks a piece. Heck, Wake Forest may be a buy game in the future or we could pay Duke to come get a whoopin'. I wish we would stick some seats up on the hill beside the scoreboard (both sides) and keep the hill for the students. I like the students being close and involved in the game.

Duke would be a fun opponent but in order to schedule them, I think you try to weasel yourself into some basketball agreement that is amenable to App. Wake, NC State, UNC, and ECU should be on future schedules each year. Maybe not all in one season, obviously, but one or two of them per year. I know some people enjoy playing UNC-Harrisburg but I just couldn't care less about them. It's not a UNC - App type feeling for me, it's just that it's a commuter school in a transient style city. Charlotte will be a major hub over the next few decades but I still think it's better suited as a professional sports town.

I like the idea of making an agreement with schools on our away games in nc that we sell tickets and keep revenue from tickets sold through AppState website even though it is an away game. We would sell many to uncg, uncc, wake, let them call it an away game. We call it a home game because of the amount of App fans there. Elon, Davidson and nc state should be interested. Any team not selling out their basketball arena should be interested.

Just curious, how many fans showed up to Wake game last year? Not challenging the idea..as I like it...but was it a difference maker...or are seeing this through black&gold covered glasses

[bcoach]

I believe that they $100 million in debt on their stadium alone.

People spending other peoples money.

[AppSt94]

The question is what does App give up in potential ticket revenue for non-premium games if there is a permanent expansion to 40,000? If you only fill that up two times a year, you're likely driving down prices by increasing supply not only for that game, but for future games. You may also drive down the incentive to join Yosef Club if tickets can be had whether you get season tickets or not.

You also have the question of current performance. If performance continues to trend the way its currently going what does that mean for attendance of games against less desirable opponents? You also would prefer not to get on the G5 train of bringing in outsiders as coaches because I believe, to a certain extent, that the fan base feels more engaged when one of their own is coaching. Satterfield and Clark have certainly bridged the gap between old and new which helps fans continue to feel the history of the program. If you get into a situation where you're bringing in guys like Drinkwitz (great coach, but people dislike him here), what does that do to fan interest?

I would think that a more permanent structure to the East side that may increase capacity to 35,000 or so, along with some luxury boxes, would be more suitable than a full on expansion.

Just my opinion though, which isn't worth a whole helluva lot.

My belief is they make up demand numbers. I am sure season tickets sales were strong but if you limit the number to 12,000 in a 25,000 seat stadium then yeah you sold out of season tickets. The same can be done in a 40,000 seat stadium.

I would like to see the 40,000 seat stadium for concert and other event opportunities as well as being able to attract big name football teams to Boone. We can pay teams to come to Boone if we can sell out 45,000 tickets at 130 bucks a piece. Heck, Wake Forest may be a buy game in the future or we could pay Duke to come get a whoopin'. I wish we would stick some seats up on the hill beside the scoreboard (both sides) and keep the hill for the students. I like the students being close and involved in the game.

Duke would be a fun opponent but in order to schedule them, I think you try to weasel yourself into some basketball agreement that is amenable to App. Wake, NC State, UNC, and ECU should be on future schedules each year. Maybe not all in one season, obviously, but one or two of them per year. I know some people enjoy playing UNC-Harrisburg but I just couldn't care less about them. It's not a UNC - App type feeling for me, it's just that it's a commuter school in a transient style city. Charlotte will be a major hub over the next few decades but I still think it's better suited as a professional sports town.

I like the idea of making an agreement with schools on our away games in nc that we sell tickets and keep revenue from tickets sold through AppState website even though it is an away game. We would sell many to uncg, uncc, wake, let them call it an away game. We call it a home game because of the amount of App fans there. Elon, Davidson and nc state should be interested. Any team not selling out their basketball arena should be interested.

I’m pretty sure it doesn’t work that way. If it did, that would take away an incentive to schedule App as these schools need those gate receipts as much as we do.

As to your comment about selling 45,000 tickets at $130 doesn’t make sense. The only ones paying that sticker price are single game ticket holders. STHs paid $42 for the ECU game and the students don’t pay and count as a part of the total. So you are essentially talking about say 21k at $130. (40k-12k STH-7k students). Still good, but a far cry from your scenario.

[bcoach]

The question is what does App give up in potential ticket revenue for non-premium games if there is a permanent expansion to 40,000? If you only fill that up two times a year, you're likely driving down prices by increasing supply not only for that game, but for future games. You may also drive down the incentive to join Yosef Club if tickets can be had whether you get season tickets or not.

You also have the question of current performance. If performance continues to trend the way its currently going what does that mean for attendance of games against less desirable opponents? You also would prefer not to get on the G5 train of bringing in outsiders as coaches because I believe, to a certain extent, that the fan base feels more engaged when one of their own is coaching. Satterfield and Clark have certainly bridged the gap between old and new which helps fans continue to feel the history of the program. If you get into a situation where you're bringing in guys like Drinkwitz (great coach, but people dislike him here), what does that do to fan interest?

I would think that a more permanent structure to the East side that may increase capacity to 35,000 or so, along with some luxury boxes, would be more suitable than a full on expansion.

Just my opinion though, which isn't worth a whole helluva lot.

My belief is they make up demand numbers. I am sure season tickets sales were strong but if you limit the number to 12,000 in a 25,000 seat stadium then yeah you sold out of season tickets. The same can be done in a 40,000 seat stadium.

I would like to see the 40,000 seat stadium for concert and other event opportunities as well as being able to attract big name football teams to Boone. We can pay teams to come to Boone if we can sell out 45,000 tickets at 130 bucks a piece. Heck, Wake Forest may be a buy game in the future or we could pay Duke to come get a whoopin'. I wish we would stick some seats up on the hill beside the scoreboard (both sides) and keep the hill for the students. I like the students being close and involved in the game.

Duke would be a fun opponent but in order to schedule them, I think you try to weasel yourself into some basketball agreement that is amenable to App. Wake, NC State, UNC, and ECU should be on future schedules each year. Maybe not all in one season, obviously, but one or two of them per year. I know some people enjoy playing UNC-Harrisburg but I just couldn't care less about them. It's not a UNC - App type feeling for me, it's just that it's a commuter school in a transient style city. Charlotte will be a major hub over the next few decades but I still think it's better suited as a professional sports town.

I like the idea of making an agreement with schools on our away games in nc that we sell tickets and keep revenue from tickets sold through AppState website even though it is an away game. We would sell many to uncg, uncc, wake, let them call it an away game. We call it a home game because of the amount of App fans there. Elon, Davidson and nc state should be interested. Any team not selling out their basketball arena should be interested.

I’m pretty sure it doesn’t work that way. If it did, that would take away an incentive to schedule App as these schools need those gate receipts as much as we do.

As to your comment about selling 45,000 tickets at $130 doesn’t make sense. The only ones paying that sticker price are single game ticket holders. STHs paid $42 for the ECU game and the students don’t pay and count as a part of the total. So you are essentially talking about say 21k at $130. (40k-12k STH-7k students). Still good, but a far cry from your scenario.

I am not being snarky. This is an honest question. Do you really think there are 21k who would pay $130.00 for one football game?

[AppSt94]

My belief is they make up demand numbers. I am sure season tickets sales were strong but if you limit the number to 12,000 in a 25,000 seat stadium then yeah you sold out of season tickets. The same can be done in a 40,000 seat stadium.

I would like to see the 40,000 seat stadium for concert and other event opportunities as well as being able to attract big name football teams to Boone. We can pay teams to come to Boone if we can sell out 45,000 tickets at 130 bucks a piece. Heck, Wake Forest may be a buy game in the future or we could pay Duke to come get a whoopin'. I wish we would stick some seats up on the hill beside the scoreboard (both sides) and keep the hill for the students. I like the students being close and involved in the game.

Duke would be a fun opponent but in order to schedule them, I think you try to weasel yourself into some basketball agreement that is amenable to App. Wake, NC State, UNC, and ECU should be on future schedules each year. Maybe not all in one season, obviously, but one or two of them per year. I know some people enjoy playing UNC-Harrisburg but I just couldn't care less about them. It's not a UNC - App type feeling for me, it's just that it's a commuter school in a transient style city. Charlotte will be a major hub over the next few decades but I still think it's better suited as a professional sports town.

I like the idea of making an agreement with schools on our away games in nc that we sell tickets and keep revenue from tickets sold through AppState website even though it is an away game. We would sell many to uncg, uncc, wake, let them call it an away game. We call it a home game because of the amount of App fans there. Elon, Davidson and nc state should be interested. Any team not selling out their basketball arena should be interested.

I’m pretty sure it doesn’t work that way. If it did, that would take away an incentive to schedule App as these schools need those gate receipts as much as we do.

As to your comment about selling 45,000 tickets at $130 doesn’t make sense. The only ones paying that sticker price are single game ticket holders. STHs paid $42 for the ECU game and the students don’t pay and count as a part of the total. So you are essentially talking about say 21k at $130. (40k-12k STH-7k students). Still good, but a far cry from your scenario.

I am not being snarky. This is an honest question. Do you really think there are 21k who would pay $130.00 for one football game?

I do not. The limited # of single game tickets available make the price tag possible.

[appgrad95&97]

I believe that they $100 million in debt on their stadium alone.

Yeah, and they have a 6.8 billion dollar endowment; ours is less than 200 million. This is why I worry about saying our stadium expansion is fully funded.

[AppSt94]

I believe that they $100 million in debt on their stadium alone.

Yeah, and they have a 6.8 billion dollar endowment; ours is less than 200 million. This is why I worry about saying our stadium expansion is fully funded.

Not this again.