Discussion with App alums

[vegattk]

Woo hoo! I can now see less App games in person!

Dumbest argument ever.

And yours is the most selfish argument ever! Lets say my daughter is offered a promotion to a job in London, making more money than she does now, for a well-respected company. She's wanted the opportunity since the day she could read. It will most likely lead to bigger and better things. I'd be the worst father in the world to selfishly say "You can't go - I have to have you close by so that I can see you whenever I choose."

That's your argument. And it's total crap.

Two entirely different things.

[BeauFoster]

Woo hoo! I can now see less App games in person!

Dumbest argument ever.

And yours is the most selfish argument ever! Lets say my daughter is offered a promotion to a job in London, making more money than she does now, for a well-respected company. She's wanted the opportunity since the day she could read. It will most likely lead to bigger and better things. I'd be the worst father in the world to selfishly say "You can't go - I have to have you close by so that I can see you whenever I choose."

That's your argument. And it's total crap.

Two entirely different things.

Nope - exact same principle. You want App to stay where they are because you are selfish and want to be able to see them play 7 times a year, at home, and 4 times a year away. You want to be able to drive to every game, walk up to the gate, buy a ticket, walk in and sit wherever you want, then not sit in traffic on the way home. That's been your main argument against the move - fewer games that you'll see in person. So you continue on your quest to bash the move, and everything associated with it.

[goapps93]

I'm still having a hard time understanding why some Yosef Club members think their DONATION to provide scholarships to student athletes should come with full access to the athletic department and a sayso in the decisions of people who are hired by the University or the UNC Board of Governors to make decisions in the best interest of the University. Yosef members and season tickets purchasers are not purchasing stock per se and thus are not really "shareholders." I also don't understand why a person who decides to DONATE to scholarship funds and/or purchase season tickets would discontinue that decision because a decision was made to seek an invite to a higher level football division/conference. App State football is App State football regardless of the league we play in. Sure, I imagine ticket prices may rise over the next several years but I don't see them increasing more than our fan base can keep up with. Our prices are already commensurate with our, soon to be, Sun Belt peers. And how many people really go to road games anyway. I know many on here do but how many times have we talked about how many fans cannot afford to go to home and away games. Some of you will now be able to save some money which will more than make up for any increase in ticket prices and purchase, what I know we all hope, will be an improved GoASUtv package or watch on one of the ESPN networks. This is all going to work out and I think the University and we, as fans, are going to be much better off in the long run.

Woo hoo! I can now see less App games in person!

Dumbest argument ever.

That is not the impetus of my argument and you know it. As recently stated your argument is selfish and only applies to a handful of people who actually do go to road games. We will still have road games that are accessable and worth travelling to. Now I'm not saying that you made this argument but there have been many that have complained about 3 home games in row being too much at one time and now there are those who are saying that it's not good that they won't be able to go to as many road games as in the past. I don't know that these same people made the same argument but if some did then it makes no sense. It also doesn't make sense to me that some people feel the need to continue to bash a decision that's already been made and will not and should not be reversed because it didn't fit their agenda. And what really doesn't make sense is when people like you seem to be wishing we will fail just so you can say,"I told you so." That again points to the selfishness of your arguments.

[appbio91]

I'm still having a hard time understanding why some Yosef Club members think their DONATION to provide scholarships to student athletes should come with full access to the athletic department and a sayso in the decisions of people who are hired by the University or the UNC Board of Governors to make decisions in the best interest of the University. Yosef members and season tickets purchasers are not purchasing stock per se and thus are not really "shareholders." I also don't understand why a person who decides to DONATE to scholarship funds and/or purchase season tickets would discontinue that decision because a decision was made to seek an invite to a higher level football division/conference. App State football is App State football regardless of the league we play in. Sure, I imagine ticket prices may rise over the next several years but I don't see them increasing more than our fan base can keep up with. Our prices are already commensurate with our, soon to be, Sun Belt peers. And how many people really go to road games anyway. I know many on here do but how many times have we talked about how many fans cannot afford to go to home and away games. Some of you will now be able to save some money which will more than make up for any increase in ticket prices and purchase, what I know we all hope, will be an improved GoASUtv package or watch on one of the ESPN networks. This is all going to work out and I think the University and we, as fans, are going to be much better off in the long run.

Woo hoo! I can now see less App games in person!

Dumbest argument ever.

That is not the impetus of my argument and you know it. As recently stated your argument is selfish and only applies to a handful of people who actually do go to road games. We will still have road games that are accessable and worth travelling to. Now I'm not saying that you made this argument but there have been many that have complained about 3 home games in row being too much at one time and now there are those who are saying that it's not good that they won't be able to go to as many road games as in the past. I don't know that these same people made the same argument but if some did then it makes no sense. It also doesn't make sense to me that some people feel the need to continue to bash a decision that's already been made and will not and should not be reversed because it didn't fit their agenda. And what really doesn't make sense is when people like you seem to be wishing we will fail just so you can say,"I told you so." That again points to the selfishness of your arguments.

Wonder how many fans will make it to ESPN broadcast Tues, Wed or Thurs games.

[ASUMountaineer]

I'm still having a hard time understanding why some Yosef Club members think their DONATION to provide scholarships to student athletes should come with full access to the athletic department and a sayso in the decisions of people who are hired by the University or the UNC Board of Governors to make decisions in the best interest of the University. Yosef members and season tickets purchasers are not purchasing stock per se and thus are not really "shareholders." I also don't understand why a person who decides to DONATE to scholarship funds and/or purchase season tickets would discontinue that decision because a decision was made to seek an invite to a higher level football division/conference. App State football is App State football regardless of the league we play in. Sure, I imagine ticket prices may rise over the next several years but I don't see them increasing more than our fan base can keep up with. Our prices are already commensurate with our, soon to be, Sun Belt peers. And how many people really go to road games anyway. I know many on here do but how many times have we talked about how many fans cannot afford to go to home and away games. Some of you will now be able to save some money which will more than make up for any increase in ticket prices and purchase, what I know we all hope, will be an improved GoASUtv package or watch on one of the ESPN networks. This is all going to work out and I think the University and we, as fans, are going to be much better off in the long run.

Woo hoo! I can now see less App games in person!

Dumbest argument ever.

That is not the impetus of my argument and you know it. As recently stated your argument is selfish and only applies to a handful of people who actually do go to road games. We will still have road games that are accessable and worth travelling to. Now I'm not saying that you made this argument but there have been many that have complained about 3 home games in row being too much at one time and now there are those who are saying that it's not good that they won't be able to go to as many road games as in the past. I don't know that these same people made the same argument but if some did then it makes no sense. It also doesn't make sense to me that some people feel the need to continue to bash a decision that's already been made and will not and should not be reversed because it didn't fit their agenda. And what really doesn't make sense is when people like you seem to be wishing we will fail just so you can say,"I told you so." That again points to the selfishness of your arguments.

Wonder how many fans will make it to ESPN broadcast Tues, Wed or Thurs games.

I can't speak for all fans, but I plan to be at all home games...God willing.

[Saint3333]

A hand-picked subcommittee drawing data from a hand-picked focus group is not what any statistician worth his salt would call a reliable survey.

You guys in the FBS-or-bust camp should be better than this. You got what you wanted. Celebrate. Just don't try to make this out to be a popular mandate. When Charlie Cobb and G.A. Sywassink opted to forgo that part of the process, they eliminated any chance of us knowing for sure.

One of the focus groups was the Yosef Advisory Board, people chosen for their service to ASU athletics serving 3+ year terms. From the makeup of opinions on the subject I can tell you they were not handpicked based upon their thoughts on this matter. The group was clearly split in 2009 and 2010. However they were presented data and with the changing college football environment were clearly in support of the move in 2011 and even more so today.

Much like our posters here the groups were split, but after learning more about the subject they recognized this was the right decision for the entire university not just the athletic department.

While you wish people would celebrate the move (and I am), I wish the other side of the coin would stop pretending our fanbase was railroaded. This was a two year process and not some overnight slap in the face of our fanbase.

[vegattk]

I would consider your analogy the same if you could incorporate a few things

1. It's only a chance that she'd be making more money.
2. There's a chance she'd get lost in the crowds of London
3. Her London apartment is uber expensive and carries a lifetime lease
4. You're the person that will have to foot the bill when she can't afford things
5. You're still the person who will have to dig deeper into your pockets when her friends abandon her and stop helping her pay the bills
6. When she does come home to visit she'll bring a bunch of her new annoying French friends with her.
7. She'd start to base all her decisions based in her new wealthy British friends.
8. The wealthy headhunter that brought her to London can't do math....
9. The job is located in the roughest part of London.


Listen, we all know that App HAD to do something. Heck, I was one of the founding fathers that coined the term SmallCON.

But it doesn't mean that we have to be happy about it or like the way the process was handled. Some of us can see through the rose-colored glasses.

[Saint3333]

Wonder how many fans will make it to ESPN broadcast Tues, Wed or Thurs games.

This will happen once every three years, sounds like a good excuse for a day off work to me.

I will however enjoy watching my team on national TV when are the visiting teams for one of these weekday games.

Does anyone remember what it is like to play a nationally televised game?

[Saint3333]

Veg did you write an email or place a call to Charlie or Dr. Peacock, this was a two year process and you had an opportunity voice your opinion?

[vegattk]

Veg did you write an email or place a call to Charlie or Dr. Peacock, this was a two year process and you had an opportunity voice your opinion?

Actually, I did.

But of course nothing came of it... But they're both busy and I'm not a big donor so I didn't follow up.

[BeauFoster]

I would consider your analogy the same if you could incorporate a few things

1. It's only a chance that she'd be making more money.
2. There's a chance she'd get lost in the crowds of London
3. Her London apartment is uber expensive and carries a lifetime lease
4. You're the person that will have to foot the bill when she can't afford things
5. You're still the person who will have to dig deeper into your pockets when her friends abandon her and stop helping her pay the bills
6. When she does come home to visit she'll bring a bunch of her new annoying French friends with her.
7. She'd start to base all her decisions based in her new wealthy British friends.
8. The wealthy headhunter that brought her to London can't do math....
9. The job is located in the roughest part of London.


Listen, we all know that App HAD to do something. Heck, I was one of the founding fathers that coined the term SmallCON.

But it doesn't mean that we have to be happy about it or like the way the process was handled. Some of us can see through the rose-colored glasses.

And this is where we see two different sides of the same story. We all know that we'll make more money in the Belt, but what we don't know is how much more we're going to spend. It could be a little, it could be a whole lot. I personally believe that the balance will likely be even or positive, eventually. You seem to be looking at everything from a "glass half-full" position, while I obviously am not. I'm trying to be objective, and realize that there are going to be short-comings from the move. However, I believe that those are out-weighed by the positives, in some instances by a wide margin. App (I'm really trying to get into the whole 'App State' vs 'ASU' thing - seems odd) is its own school, with its own path. Us as fans and supporters will help define and lead where she goes. Bitching and moaning on a message board, and constantly putting down everything associate with the move, will do nothing but divide us.

Questioning something is good. I'd never say that you shouldn't. However, constantly harping on the same belabored points, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again do nothing to support your cause.

[vegattk]

I would consider your analogy the same if you could incorporate a few things

1. It's only a chance that she'd be making more money.
2. There's a chance she'd get lost in the crowds of London
3. Her London apartment is uber expensive and carries a lifetime lease
4. You're the person that will have to foot the bill when she can't afford things
5. You're still the person who will have to dig deeper into your pockets when her friends abandon her and stop helping her pay the bills
6. When she does come home to visit she'll bring a bunch of her new annoying French friends with her.
7. She'd start to base all her decisions based in her new wealthy British friends.
8. The wealthy headhunter that brought her to London can't do math....
9. The job is located in the roughest part of London.


Listen, we all know that App HAD to do something. Heck, I was one of the founding fathers that coined the term SmallCON.

But it doesn't mean that we have to be happy about it or like the way the process was handled. Some of us can see through the rose-colored glasses.

And this is where we see two different sides of the same story. We all know that we'll make more money in the Belt, but what we don't know is how much more we're going to spend. It could be a little, it could be a whole lot. I personally believe that the balance will likely be even or positive, eventually. You seem to be looking at everything from a "glass half-full" position, while I obviously am not. I'm trying to be objective, and realize that there are going to be short-comings from the move. However, I believe that those are out-weighed by the positives, in some instances by a wide margin. App (I'm really trying to get into the whole 'App State' vs 'ASU' thing - seems odd) is its own school, with its own path. Us as fans and supporters will help define and lead where she goes. Bitching and moaning on a message board, and constantly putting down everything associate with the move, will do nothing but divide us.

Questioning something is good. I'd never say that you shouldn't. However, constantly harping on the same belabored points, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again do nothing to support your cause.

Bitching and moaning is what we do on message boards!

God help us the football season can't get here soon enough....

(I wouldn't have to rehash the same arguments if the for side would stop doing the same thing)

[Gonzo]

I'll still be behind my Apps 100%

Your signature pictures prove otherwise.

This.

The Sun Belch picture especially. Guests from other Sun Belt schools visit this forum and it reflets badly on the fan base.

[vegattk]

I'll still be behind my Apps 100%

Your signature pictures prove otherwise.

This.

The Sun Belch picture especially. Guests from other Sun Belt schools visit this forum and it reflets badly on the fan base.

I could care less about what they think of our fan base.... Heck, half of them are clamoring to get out of the Belt themselves.. After all, it's getting watered down with all these FCS schools.

[Gonzo]

I'll still be behind my Apps 100%

Your signature pictures prove otherwise.

This.

The Sun Belch picture especially. Guests from other Sun Belt schools visit this forum and it reflets badly on the fan base.

I could care less about what they think of our fan base.... Heck, half of them are clamoring to get out of the Belt themselves.. After all, it's getting watered down with all these FCS schools.

Wow. Talk about a sore loser.

Why do you even bother coming to the MMB? I certainly don't expect to see you at games after 2014. That would be awful hypocritical of you to support a lowly SBC team. Perhaps the mighty SoCon and one of it's members will have you as a fan.

[JCline0429]

I'll still be behind my Apps 100%

Your signature pictures prove otherwise.

This.

The Sun Belch picture especially. Guests from other Sun Belt schools visit this forum and it reflets badly on the fan base.

Since when have the members of this board ever cared how we look to other schools' fans?

[asumike83]

Listen, we all know that App HAD to do something. Heck, I was one of the founding fathers that coined the term SmallCON.

But it doesn't mean that we have to be happy about it or like the way the process was handled. Some of us can see through the rose-colored glasses.

I'm trying to understand your viewpoint. Are you upset that App is moving to the Sun Belt, that you weren't allowed enough input on the decision or both?

You acknowledge that with the way the NCAA landscape is changing, App had to do something. If you did not like the SoCon and you do not like the Sun Belt, what would you have had them do?

Our options were stay put, go to the CAA or go to the Sun Belt. Both of those conferences would mean an increase in travel, while another FCS conference would not have provided an increase in revenue now that the CAA has been gutted into a one-bid basketball league.

App spent several years groveling at the feet of C-USA to no avail because we do not offer a media market. If the administration continued down that road, it would have meant a long-term stay in the SoCon. C-USA was not going to invite an FCS App State, especially with our lone cheerleader having left for the AAC.

It is just frustrating to continually see pictures of our program being flushed down the toilet, 'Sun Belch' logos of the one FBS conference who gave App a chance to play FBS football and "I reserve the right to say I told you so". The decision has been made and the program needs our support. Reserving the right to say "I told you so" could very well be a self-fulfilling prophecy if enough of our fans get on board with that thinking. Very counterproductive at this point.

[vegattk]

I'll still be behind my Apps 100%

Your signature pictures prove otherwise.

This.

The Sun Belch picture especially. Guests from other Sun Belt schools visit this forum and it reflets badly on the fan base.

I could care less about what they think of our fan base.... Heck, half of them are clamoring to get out of the Belt themselves.. After all, it's getting watered down with all these FCS schools.

Wow. Talk about a sore loser.

Why do you even bother coming to the MMB? I certainly don't expect to see you at games after 2014. That would be awful hypocritical of you to support a lowly SBC team. Perhaps the mighty SoCon and one of it's members will have you as a fan.

Once again... One can still be behind a team 100% even if they don't like the company they keep.

[ASUMountaineer]

I would consider your analogy the same if you could incorporate a few things

1. It's only a chance that she'd be making more money.
2. There's a chance she'd get lost in the crowds of London
3. Her London apartment is uber expensive and carries a lifetime lease
4. You're the person that will have to foot the bill when she can't afford things
5. You're still the person who will have to dig deeper into your pockets when her friends abandon her and stop helping her pay the bills
6. When she does come home to visit she'll bring a bunch of her new annoying French friends with her.
7. She'd start to base all her decisions based in her new wealthy British friends.
8. The wealthy headhunter that brought her to London can't do math....
9. The job is located in the roughest part of London.


Listen, we all know that App HAD to do something. Heck, I was one of the founding fathers that coined the term SmallCON.

But it doesn't mean that we have to be happy about it or like the way the process was handled. Some of us can see through the rose-colored glasses.

HEY! Many of my ancestors were French!!!


But, you're right.

[Appsolutely]

I think it unfair to characterize as stupid or naive those who hold a different view on the move up from most of us here. It is too simple to pass them off as people who want to be able to drive up 10 minutes before the game, get their spot in the stadium lot, and slip into their seats without a hassle. Or to suggest they aren't folks who give to Yosef. Or who don't care about ASU's future. While I disagree with them, it doesn't mean their opinion is necessarily irrational. We need to acknowledge that quite a few of our fellow fans and alums are not in favor of the move. I doubt we convince them of the soundness of the decision by denigrating them.

Good post, Jerry. As always, you're one of the mature and reasonable adults in the room.

I've spoken with a small handful of my peers, including former teammates and classmates from several" years gone by. It's a mixed bag with them. All want what's best for Appalachian; but differ somewhat in their opinions of what's going to be the best "station in life" for our alma mater. There's quite a bit of interest among these folks in continuing to schedule long-time, traditional opponents Davidson, WCU, ETSU, El Cid and Furman in non-conference games (in all sports).

I've been in Boone two or three days a week since last September participating in a cardiac rehab program associated with Watauga Med Center and ASU's Human Performance Lab. Being there so often has afforded me the opportunity talk with several undergrad and grad students; some older, retired App grads and more recent App grads who reside in either Boone or Blowing Rock; and several downtown merchants (especially in t-shirt shops and restaurants).

The feeling I get is that there's general acceptance of the move with an asterisk. Nearly everyone, myself included, would have liked to see us playing in a more geographically compact conference on the east coast or in the mid-Atlantic. Travel is going to be an issue. No one with whom I've spoken is confident about how well our fans will travel to Jonesboro, AR or Las Cruces, NM. On the other hand, in this era of realignment, it can't be completely ruled out that we'll be in a different conference before we ever play a Sunbelt contest.

Just about everyone laments the manner in which the administration handled the pursuit of a new conference home. Most spoke of the secrecy and lack of communication with students/fans/alumni that seemed to be the "modus operandi" of the AD and SID. That could have used some heavy tweaking to keep stakeholders from getting restless.

Then, there's a very small group of kooks in Boone who are convinced that this is yet more university encroachment on Boone's quiet, small town image and the forerunner of a huge increase in the local crime rate. Methinks that's a wee bit over the top.

I don't think this is about travelling to away games... never has been. It's about improving our athletics program and university stature. It's about ensuring that home attendance will continue and even increase. It is human nature to look at things from a selfish standpoint... which is where a lot of the comments you have heard seem to be based. Fans at away games, playoffs, and traffic/crime feedback are "me first" points of view that lack understanding of how important this move is for Appalachian State. It's not about the fans, its about what is best for the school... sometimes those interests are aligned, sometimes not.

As for secrecy and conspiracy theorists: The reality is, as much as we feel entitled to, we do NOT have a right to know everything there is to know, nor do we have the right to expect all information will be shared with us in decisions like these. Despite what some folks think, I feel this process was very deliberate, inclusive, and open.

The "away games are too far away for me to go to" argument will eventually be dispelled by the non-conference "away games" that will begin to appear on our schedule in the future. I fully expect trips to Spartanburg, Greenville (SC), Burlington, etc., to eventually be replaced by trips to Greenville (NC), Winston-Salem, Blacksburg, etc. I have seen some bitching about those teams perhaps not being willing to come to Boone; frankly, at this point it doesn't matter to me where we play them, as long as we play them. We can worry about having them in Boone at some point, but right now, let's just get them on the schedule.