Liberty next SBC addition?

[AppGrad78]

I find it just a wee bit ironic (perhaps hypocritical is a better word) that some on this board are now willing to embrace a school like Liberty for Sun Belt membership.

For years we heard that App State no longer belonged in the Southern Conference because of the dominance of private schools -- all five of them -- and that we needed to be co-joined with "like-minded" schools. Liberty is certainly larger than the privates of the SoCon, but it's a private school nonetheless. And there is absolutely nothing ... nada ... that is like-minded about Appalachian State and Liberty.

I'm as eager as anyone for us to have conference rivals that share the same time zone. But Liberty? Really? Surely the Sun Belt can do better.

[newtoasu]

My fear is that adding LIberty to the SBC may harden the already sizable opposition to the move to the SBC within the ASU community. It is louder and more pronounced than some may believe.

I believe certain SB schools are gone whenever they get an invite anyway.

Better to add now, and hope the current schools dont find an exit till everyone has transitioned.

Hapapp was referring to resistance from within Appalachian to the FBS move, not Sun Belt school resistance (which also exists). The former is more concerning, though. I'd like to know how hapapp knows there is a sizable opposition. Other than Facebook, and some on AppFan, it is hard to quantify how much resistance there really is to this move.

I obviously don't have any hard evidence at this point. But, I have heard from some folks who are more connected than I, that there has been some grumbling. To what extent and how deep, I don't know. As TheMoody1 suggests, Yosef numbers will give us some idea.

Let me preface this with saying that I have not taught at ASU in over 7 years, but when I was there was a very broad based, small opposition to athletics in general and football in particular among many of the faculty and some of the students. I'm sure that a lot of that has not changed. If you now add the group that liked or tolerated football while at the FCS level but do not want the change in divisions, you will only be adding more to the opposition.

That being said, I think the vast majority of faculty don't care one way or the other about athletics because it doesn't directly impact them. In addition, I think most students are casual fans and will go along with whatever decisions are made.

Again, these are just my impressions made almost a decade ago; however they are based on direct experience at ASU and that experience is, in general, similar to the other schools where I have taught, with ASU faculty being only slightly more anti-athletics.

[Appsolutely]

"But, I have heard from some folks who are more connected than I, that there has been some grumbling."

Of course there has been some "grumbling." We have fans who would ask for a refund if somebody walked by their parking space and broke wind.

[8993]

This could potentially harm the Sun Belt even more when it comes to PR. The SBC already has the reputation of brining in move ups to fill out the conference, and with Liberty having a relatively weak athletic background doesn't help. Are we taking them because they are our only option, or are we taking them because they have proven themselves? Their TV deal is good, yes, but their reputation is going to bring the entire SBC down. This is a bad move all around, in my opinion. I hope the SBC member's administartion realize that this could destroy the SBC in general. I feel bad for Liberty in a way, but they put themselves into this situation.

[RankinApp]

I find it just a wee bit ironic (perhaps hypocritical is a better word) that some on this board are now willing to embrace a school like Liberty for Sun Belt membership.

About the same as embracing the Sun Belt itself after the C-USA door closed. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad App is finally FBS, but the entire thing reeks of desperation.

[Rekdiver]

If you were able to get on the last lifeboat leaving the Titanic you would not care about anything other that it floating and you would be grateful. We had no choice. We also have Charlotte breathing down our back. I'm sure the grumblings are mostly from the academic side and those that still wish we were in the Carolina's Conference. You have to break a few eggs if you want an omelete!!

[8993]

I find it just a wee bit ironic (perhaps hypocritical is a better word) that some on this board are now willing to embrace a school like Liberty for Sun Belt membership.

About the same as embracing the Sun Belt itself after the C-USA door closed. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad App is finally FBS, but the entire thing reeks of desperation.

Well, as much as we like to say it's not, the SBC is likely a stepping stone for App. Will we be here for a while? Probably. Will we be here in twenty-five years? I'd bet not. The years we are here though, we want to make the absolute best of it. Does the loss of WKU hurt the SBC? Yes, but it's not devestating. Does the addition of App and GSU help the SBC? Definitely, seeing as we are/were the two strongest FCS members. Does the addition of Liberty help the SBC? That's tricky. Liberty would definitely increase the amount of people watching the SBC, and they bring with them excellent facilities. They also bring with the an awful reputation that will not be going away anytime soon. Do the positives balance out the negatives? I don't think so. Liberty has yet to really prove themselves all around. Their basketball program may be decent, but that is not enough to carry the entire school. We need to look at strong programs overall that will help the SBC and its reputation, not harm it.

[Kgfish]

http://www.newsadvance.com/sports/liber ... 0f31a.html

[RankinApp]

If you were able to get on the last lifeboat leaving the Titanic you would not care about anything other that it floating and you would be grateful.

Depends. What if it's an alternate history Titanic and the Carpathia is a no show and we're stranded in the North Atlantic in the same lifeboat with Liberty for an extended period of time?

Seriously, App had to make the move and the Sun Belt was the last lifeboat off the ship. I agree.

[Kgfish]

If you were able to get on the last lifeboat leaving the Titanic you would not care about anything other that it floating and you would be grateful. We had no choice. We also have Charlotte breathing down our back. I'm sure the grumblings are mostly from the academic side and those that still wish we were in the Carolina's Conference. You have to break a few eggs if you want an omelete!!

This is what most App fans fail to recognize. Anyone with half a brain realizes the FCS pond is drying up. If you are fortunate enough to have an opportunity to get out you better take it. I'm tired of all these naysayers going on and on how the SB is no better than FCS and the SoCon. It is ludicrous to compare the 1,100 to 3,000 enrollment schools in the Small Con to those in the Sun Belt. Had Ga Southern left without us my Yosef contribution would now be cut in half, maybe more. If the school isn't committed to being their best, they don't need as much of my cash.

[Kgfish]

I find it just a wee bit ironic (perhaps hypocritical is a better word) that some on this board are now willing to embrace a school like Liberty for Sun Belt membership.

For years we heard that App State no longer belonged in the Southern Conference because of the dominance of private schools -- all five of them -- and that we needed to be co-joined with "like-minded" schools. Liberty is certainly larger than the privates of the SoCon, but it's a private school nonetheless. And there is absolutely nothing ... nada ... that is like-minded about Appalachian State and Liberty.

I'm as eager as anyone for us to have conference rivals that share the same time zone. But Liberty? Really? Surely the Sun Belt can do better.

From what I've been able to glean over the years the issue with the SoCon private schools isn't so much they are private, but their resistance towards most everything the public schools wanted related to membership and commitment to athletics. Their size also played a big part in it from the standpoint of attendance and support. Once Wofford became a voting member they proposed basing the number of football scholarships on total dollars spent. It was gaining a foot hold with FU and VMI until the conference told them in no uncertain terms that was an institutional issue and had nothing to do with the conference. ASU also abstained from voting for Elon because of the direction the conference was heading. I know people like to bring up WF, Duke and Vandy in the ACC & SEC. College athletics is a lot different world than when these conferences formed formed in 1930's and 50's. I doubt either of them would be considered for membership today.

Liberty is a lot like Miami in that each have large enrollments for a private school, Liberty 12,600 on campus and Miami around 15,000, they have outstanding facilities and compete well the world of large public institutions.

In relationship to other FCS schools, Liberty's facilities dwarf those of any private school in FCS and superior and equal to everyone else in the division. They are a lot like App and Ga Southern in that they simply do not fit the FCS model any longer.

[Black Saturday]

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/college ... st?id=3586


Liberty in discussions with Sun Belt
April, 3, 2013
APR 3
9:13
AM ET
By Brent Sobleski | ESPN.com
RECOMMEND13COMMENTS0EMAILPRINT

UPDATE: James Madison's lack of interest in making an immediate jump to the FBS ranks has Liberty in a prime position to become the Sun Belt's 12th member. The two sides have already engaged in preliminary talks.

That cheapens the move a little Moore.

[DaphneUrquhart]

it is hard to quantify how much resistance there really is to this move.

It will be an easy question to answer in the near future. Do Yosef membership numbers and donations go up or down?

My experience with our donor base and others is that some of the most vocal supporters or detractors do not donate actual dollars as loudly as they donate words.

App State has done a thorough job of examining and deciding on the move to the SunBelt. One of the things we need now is for all App State supporters to join Yosef or renew their Yosef memberships. I hope no one decides to throw 450 student athletes under the bus because they don't agree with our conference affiliation, though I'm certain there will be those who use the SunBelt acceptance for their excuse not to donate.

Personally, I'm a Yosef member for our student athletes ... all of them ... every year.

[fjblair]

My fear is that adding LIberty to the SBC may harden the already sizable opposition to the move to the SBC within the ASU community. It is louder and more pronounced than some may believe.

In order for us to make it at the FBS level, we will need to see an increase in fund raising. Folks are going to have reach down and give some more and hopefully we find some new contributors that want to be a part of this move. I do worry that some folks will choose to reduce their giving or withdraw altogether. I'm not sure Liberty helps us on that front.

If we jump in the sack with Liberty, I'm done with giving to athletics. I will redirect to academics.

[fjblair]

I find it just a wee bit ironic (perhaps hypocritical is a better word) that some on this board are now willing to embrace a school like Liberty for Sun Belt membership.

For years we heard that App State no longer belonged in the Southern Conference because of the dominance of private schools -- all five of them -- and that we needed to be co-joined with "like-minded" schools. Liberty is certainly larger than the privates of the SoCon, but it's a private school nonetheless. And there is absolutely nothing ... nada ... that is like-minded about Appalachian State and Liberty.

I'm as eager as anyone for us to have conference rivals that share the same time zone. But Liberty? Really? Surely the Sun Belt can do better.

Bully for for you 78, somebody has to call this out.

[fjblair]

I find it just a wee bit ironic (perhaps hypocritical is a better word) that some on this board are now willing to embrace a school like Liberty for Sun Belt membership.

About the same as embracing the Sun Belt itself after the C-USA door closed. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad App is finally FBS, but the entire thing reeks of desperation.

Make no mistake it is desperation. Many supporters can stomach the SB because we were desperate and they threw us a life line. Liberty will cause some of us to throw the line back. I don't think I'm being overly dramatic, Liberty is a back breaker for many. They have less in common with us than Elon, Wofford and Samford combined.

[Saint3333]

it is hard to quantify how much resistance there really is to this move.

It will be an easy question to answer in the near future. Do Yosef membership numbers and donations go up or down?

My experience with our donor base and others is that some of the most vocal supporters or detractors do not donate actual dollars as loudly as they donate words.

App State has done a thorough job of examining and deciding on the move to the SunBelt. One of the things we need now is for all App State supporters to join Yosef or renew their Yosef memberships. I hope no one decides to throw 450 student athletes under the bus because they don't agree with our conference affiliation, though I'm certain there will be those who use the SunBelt acceptance for their excuse not to donate.

Personally, I'm a Yosef member for our student athletes ... all of them ... every year.

We could certainly use more fans like you!

[hapapp]

From the Sun Belt board:

Benson: "Everyone thinks that Liberty is next in line, but that is Far far far from the case."

He was speaking on a Lafayette radio station today.

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=628032

[kiddbrewer]

My fear is that adding LIberty to the SBC may harden the already sizable opposition to the move to the SBC within the ASU community. It is louder and more pronounced than some may believe.

In order for us to make it at the FBS level, we will need to see an increase in fund raising. Folks are going to have reach down and give some more and hopefully we find some new contributors that want to be a part of this move. I do worry that some folks will choose to reduce their giving or withdraw altogether. I'm not sure Liberty helps us on that front.

If we jump in the sack with Liberty, I'm done with giving to athletics. I will redirect to academics.

We (App) are not jumping in the sack with Liberty. We (App) have no say in the matter. And when I say that, I mean App has no vote.

[kiddbrewer]

it is hard to quantify how much resistance there really is to this move.

It will be an easy question to answer in the near future. Do Yosef membership numbers and donations go up or down?

My experience with our donor base and others is that some of the most vocal supporters or detractors do not donate actual dollars as loudly as they donate words.

App State has done a thorough job of examining and deciding on the move to the SunBelt. One of the things we need now is for all App State supporters to join Yosef or renew their Yosef memberships. I hope no one decides to throw 450 student athletes under the bus because they don't agree with our conference affiliation, though I'm certain there will be those who use the SunBelt acceptance for their excuse not to donate.

Personally, I'm a Yosef member for our student athletes ... all of them ... every year.

Great post. Maybe those who were gung-ho for this move will help off set those donations that will be lost. I will certainly re-evaluate what I am giving and see if I can squeeze a bit more out of my teacher's salary.