The Carolina Way (Cont'd)

[Black Saturday]

Pat Kennedy - former FSU head coach ---
"Pat Kennedy said "Gary Williams will tell you this, most of the coaches in the ACC felt that Carolina was a fraud in that they walked around like they were Stanford or Vanderbilt or Northwestern, but they weren't, they were not even Duke. They took the most exceptions the last few years of Dean Smith's career they took the most exceptions of any school in the ACC. Meaning kids that would not normally get accepted into the university, that were accepted to the university to play sports. I remember one year at Carolina they had five exceptions starting on their men's basketball team. So they were taking guys with very low level qualifications and then they would keep them eligible. By putting them in these courses. So if a guy was close to not being eligible and his GPA was a 1.8 he would then take a couple of these courses and his GPA would be up to 2.4 and then everybody took a deep breath and they did it again"

"And the thing about the coaches not knowing about it in football it's possible because the coaches at different positions would know about it, but it may not get to the head coach. But in basketball the head coach would know about it because he would have to approve dropping classes and getting into another class to stay eligible for graduation."

"Coaches and athletic directors, you go to NCAA meetings and there is a lot of squabbling and coaches and ADs start pointing fingers. When I first got to the ACC I had a problem with a few coaches and a few of the other guys said 'well do you really want to be the guy to turn Dean Smith in?' and you know as a young coach I said 'I guess not'."

I pray winning never becomes so important to App.

As far as basketball at APP, we can safely say that winning hasn't been important.

[McLeansvilleAppFan]

Sisemi kwamba wao ni bado cheating, lakini wao ni wito michezo yao katika swahili.

This is my favorite lines from Talking Heads, "I Zimbra"

[AppDawg]

In my opinion here are the smoking guns that clearly lay out the intent of these classes and shoot holes in the school's claims it was an academic fraud and not an athletic issue. Wayne Walden was Roy's right hand man and i believe Cynthia Reynolds was affiliated with the football program.

Reynolds

Walden

[appdaze]

As much evidence as there is, I won't believe they will receive any punishment from the NCAA until I see it.

I have read that the SACS folks are watching them closely. Academic sanctions could be coming, and I don't think SACS is intimidated by who they are.

I agree. I'll believe it when I see it from the NCAA, and it probably wont be very harsh.
SACS on the other hand will be interesting. How far can they punish UNC? full discreditation(if thats a word)?

[NewApp]

It would depend on how many and how high ranked are the officials are who are connected with UNC who make the decisions for the University section of the Southern Association. Too, most likely any sanctions would be leveled at the individual department of African-American studies. I would bet that at any rate the syllabi will be closely examined or at least pretended to be.

[huskie3]

According to other discipline measures I have seen, SACS will likely give a warning with 6 months to fix the problem.

[NewApp]

According to other discipline measures I have seen, SACS will likely give a warning with 6 months to fix the problem.

They can say they already fixed the problem with the firing of the African-American Studies department chairman.

[GreatAppSt]

Time for the UNC System schools to diverge themselves far away from UNC.

[NewApp]

Time for the UNC System schools to diverge themselves far away from UNC.

We'd have to go back to 1968 to do that.

[ASUMountaineer]

From the N&O ---
"This is where the report becomes troublesome. The public is asked to believe that this abuse occurred without the knowledge of coaches who are or were the keepers of the university’s most precious athletic asset, its men’s basketball program. The proposition is that a succession of head coaches connected by the close bonds of the Carolina family – Dean Smith; his longtime assistant and successor, Bill Guthridge; Matt Doherty, and now Roy Williams – were not aware of sham classes that helped keep basketball players eligible.

Williams says he was “dumbfounded” by the report’s findings. The numbers in the report suggest that such cluelessness among the basketball coaches would have required utter indifference to what their players were doing academically. Under Smith, there were 54 enrollments in AFAM independent study classes; under Guthridge, 17 in three years; under Doherty, 42 in three years, and under Williams, 136 since he took over in 2003. Ten players on the 2005 national championship team were AFAM majors.

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/10/25/ ... rylink=cpy

"Lack of institutional control."

[manonabuffalo]

What gets lost is how racist this whole thing is as well.

Reverse discrimination.

There is no such thing, it is just called discrimination.

google reverse discriminination

there are many entries

reverse discrimination


noun1.
Reverse discrimination is defined as engaging in actions that have a negative impact or that disfavor someone who was traditionally in a majority position.

An example of reverse discrimination is when a school system automatically lets in women instead of men, even when the men are far more qualified in terms of grades and credentials.

YourDictionary definition and usage example. Copyright © 2014 by LoveToKnow Corp

I understand the term and it's existence, that wasn't my point. The point is that when discrimination exists, there need not be an additional adjective to describe the type. Thus discrimination is discrimination plain and simple, such as what occurred at UNC CHeat.

[HeffnerIV]

I was just listening to Colin Cowherd's podcast from Friday and he was fascinated by the scope of it and the fact that the NCAA essentially did nothing after their investigation. I'm like most in the fact that I'll believe there will be sufficient punishment when I see it.

[manonabuffalo]

I was just listening to Colin Cowherd's podcast from Friday and he was fascinated by the scope of it and the fact that the NCAA essentially did nothing after their investigation. I'm like most in the fact that I'll believe there will be sufficient punishment when I see it.

If this isn't death penalty worthy, I guess nothing is anymore. The NCAA is in the business of picking winners and losers if they don't blow apart the Baby Blue idiots and sentence them to death, with a ten year review in status. Something like this is too big a violation to stand by or slap a wrist or two, given the scope and length of violations. See SMU, Miami, and Penn State for precedent.

[WVAPPeer]

I was just listening to Colin Cowherd's podcast from Friday and he was fascinated by the scope of it and the fact that the NCAA essentially did nothing after their investigation. I'm like most in the fact that I'll believe there will be sufficient punishment when I see it.

If this isn't death penalty worthy, I guess nothing is anymore. The NCAA is in the business of picking winners and losers if they don't blow apart the Baby Blue idiots and sentence them to death, with a ten year review in status. Something like this is too big a violation to stand by or slap a wrist or two, given the scope and length of violations. See SMU, Miami, and Penn State for precedent.

Unfortunately, I see no major sanctions such death penalty coming here - your examples, also unfortunately, don't match up - SMU - nobody cares about, never did - never will, --- Miami has been a target for the NCAA for so long they probably have a special division set up just for them --- Penn St was a criminal activity and the cover-up of criminal activity in just about the worst kind of way - not really relevant to UNC - They will dump the real penalties on the football program and the basketball will get a slap on the wrist --- Hope they both get slammed, just don't see it happening ---

[NewApp]

I was just listening to Colin Cowherd's podcast from Friday and he was fascinated by the scope of it and the fact that the NCAA essentially did nothing after their investigation. I'm like most in the fact that I'll believe there will be sufficient punishment when I see it.

If this isn't death penalty worthy, I guess nothing is anymore. The NCAA is in the business of picking winners and losers if they don't blow apart the Baby Blue idiots and sentence them to death, with a ten year review in status. Something like this is too big a violation to stand by or slap a wrist or two, given the scope and length of violations. See SMU, Miami, and Penn State for precedent.

Unfortunately, I see no major sanctions such death penalty coming here - your examples, also unfortunately, don't match up - SMU - nobody cares about, never did - never will, --- Miami has been a target for the NCAA for so long they probably have a special division set up just for them --- Penn St was a criminal activity and the cover-up of criminal activity in just about the worst kind of way - not really relevant to UNC - They will dump the real penalties on the football program and the basketball will get a slap on the wrist --- Hope they both get slammed, just don't see it happening ---

RP.

[moonshine]

Part of the sanctions should be forcing UNC to schedule home and homes in basketball with every single public program in NC as well as home and homes with all FBS football programs and money games against all in-state FCS squads.

[AppinVA]

I'm just waiting for the "system-wide study" that will cause pain for the rest of us. I hope when that's brought up, the 15 other chancellors tell UNC-CHeat, and the system board where they can stick it.

[moehler]

agree that the death penality will never happen, but with all the national tv, radio, and newspapers exposure, the NCAA will have no choice but to reopen their investigation. Personally, I believe they had a strong idea from the start on what was going on at UNC, but in the wake of the Penn State scandal, and UNC being one of the elite, flagship, schools, they were more than willing to do nothing and hope this would all go away. Now, you would think they have no choice but to punish them severely, if for no other reason, to give the elusion that they are a fair and just organization, but you never know. The question I have is how long before they give out the punishment, PSU knew within, I believe, a month. The longer this thing drags out, the better it is for UNC, if 6 months from now we still don't know the answer, it will be safe to bet they will get off pretty easy.

[DoubleA]

No way Carolina BB gets the death penalty - the TV and sponsor $$s are too big. Can you imagine if there were no Carolina - Duke games for the next 3 -5 years? No way

[ASUMountaineer]

agree that the death penality will never happen, but with all the national tv, radio, and newspapers exposure, the NCAA will have no choice but to reopen their investigation. Personally, I believe they had a strong idea from the start on what was going on at UNC, but in the wake of the Penn State scandal, and UNC being one of the elite, flagship, schools, they were more than willing to do nothing and hope this would all go away. Now, you would think they have no choice but to punish them severely, if for no other reason, to give the elusion that they are a fair and just organization, but you never know. The question I have is how long before they give out the punishment, PSU knew within, I believe, a month. The longer this thing drags out, the better it is for UNC, if 6 months from now we still don't know the answer, it will be safe to bet they will get off pretty easy.

If the NCAA has been worried about Congress sniffing around, they had better do something to UNC. How are you going to come down on players like Todd Gurley for signing jerseys for money, but not on hired professionals committing academic fraud?